News Article - Motorcycle Accident in SD

To say that if a dumbass wants to kill himself then fly at it really misses the boat. Something that seems to be overlooked regularly is that if a rider rides like he's hell bent for election, and wipes out, what happens when this action causes a totally innocent party to become involved in a separate incident? What about the cost to us the tax payers for this dumbass who kills himself. I guarantee you that all that goes into the investigation of a fatal MVA verses an injury one is like night an day. Once it becomes fatal, you involves not only a far more in depth police investigation including hours and hours of invest, and paper work, but police now involve their Traffic Collision Re constructionists and their even more hours of investigation. Often engineers are involved as well as peole from the Hwys department or city works. The coroner and his staff become involved. Pathology and lab work. Possibly emotional counseling for those innocent people who observed the collision. How about those left behind?

It is really not that simple. I really don't give a rat's ass about Ricky dumbshit here but there are many others who now fall into the picture. Food for thought.

 

It also makes us look bad.

"oh you ride a sport bike..
aka
you have no reguard for your saftey or others and are basically a tool."
A lot of people view all sport riders as squids, and some all bikers as squids.
I can't say i blame them when you here about things like this in the media.

I also think a simple lincence test change would be the cheepest and most effective change.
this would educate people how to ride, als would force them to take a course. because without a course you will not pass this test.
this would prevent people from just picking up a bike and riding off.

 

I heard about that yesterday. I guess there was another one out in east county. again another illequiped person overstepping thier abilities.

Bob

 

Here in New Zealand we have a graduated licence system. New riders are limited to a maximum of 250cc until they have obtained their "full" bike licence. Learners are limited to a maximum of 70kmh on our open roads where the limit is 100kmh. This is downright dangerous and can get someone rear-ended by a cage.
The other drawback with this system is the fact that all 250's are grossly overpriced! A 15yr old 250cc bike can be sold for the same as a brand new 500cc bike. Then there are the insurance issues as well (IF people decide to be insured).

There are plans for us to adopt the Australian system where noob riders will be limited to a "power output" rather than a simple, arbitrary, cc amount. For example, an old bike that is (say)500cc's but dosen't generate the power output, will be acceptable but a new 500cc crotch-rocket will be forbidden.
This system sounds great to me, but will probably be stuffed up once our brain-dead politicians get their hands on it!


The modern bikes are a darned sight more deadly than those that we grew up with. 0-MACH 1 in the blink of an eye, and the new riders do not have the skill sets to get them out of trouble, but enough skills to get them into trouble...

As much as we do not want gubbinment intrusion into our lives, a graduated licence system does have its merits.

 

I don't know, and maybe I'm just a cynic, but it seems to me this reportedly unprepared, untrained, inexperienced young man would likely have killed himself on a smaller bike also. It doesn't take all that much speed to kill if you don't know what you're doing and aren't dressed properly. Sad either way. Lots of devastated people left in the wake of this senseless loss.:sad:

 

Right on Knife.

 

I have personally picked up a kid that hit a tree when his bike went off a 30mph curve going either 70 or 100 depending on which friend you asked. He died and it shouldn't have happened. That said, I also know people who have been riding sport bikes for years and not had any real problems (besides dodging cages). People are going to be stupid! This is job security for me. Not that I want to see people get hurt or killed but you can't get rid of this stuff without getting rid of bikes.

The notion that you can create laws to protect people from their own stupidity is crazy. People are smart enough or determined enough to do what they want even if they know it is bad for them. This is about the same as trying to get rid of guns because someone got killed with a gun. Trust me, they can and will find other ways to kill each other. For everything that is worth doing out there is a group that wants to get rid of it because they don't like or agree with it. I wish you could train people to use common sense but it will never happen for everyone.

 

Common sense? I gotta get me some of that. Is it available on line and do they take pay pal?

 

I agree with the concensus in that I sure don't want the government any more involved in my life than they already are, no argument at all there. But, as I said above, I think the time for graduated licenses is fast arriving.

If a kid buys a superbike and kills himself that's terrible. It's a waste, it's tragic, and it's just plain terrible. The problem is that they aren't killing just themselves. When a kid kills himself because he is inexperienced and in way over his head that's one thing but when he takes out a soccer mom with a mini-van full of kids that crosses the line into horrific. And it does happen.

I quoted the section of the post above because I don't think it is a separate issue. A CBR or GSX-R in the hands of an experienced and responsible rider is no more dangerous than a Vespa scooter in the ands of a newbie. It's the person on the back, not the bike itself that makes things dangerous.

If something isn't done to slow some of these guys down these kinds of bikes are going to get legislated into oblivion. Rather than control the people who can't handle them the government will start regulating bikes. Literally "Regulating" them. Anything that is capable of exceednig interstate speed limits will be "Fixed" so that it can't. Sooner or later we are going to find ourselves faced with a choice: Are we going to force new riders to take it easy until they learn to ride or are we going to allow all high-performance bikes, the VFR included, to be legislated out of existance?

And don't think that just because it isn't "Fair" it won't happen. They've already tried it with guns, they've tried it with loud mufflers, they've tried it with dirt bikes, they've tried it with a lot of other things. Bottom line is that it can happen because the people that pass laws and the people who are most vocal just plain don't like motorcycles.

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so and I'd be the first on in line to say, "Damn I'm glad I was wrong!" But that's the way I see things headed.

 

It is really overly simplistic to say I don't want government in my business. Government creates and maintains the roads, sets, promulgates, and enforces rules of the road that, if they did not exist, would cause us way more grief than the slaughter we see now. And the list goes on and on. The same folks that rant against government involvement also rant against the idiot with the cell phone. The problem is we need good laws, not no laws. The worry, of course, is the usual slippery slope concern that if we allow any regulation we will be completed hamstrung. The simple fact is that that is not true. We have lots of regulations and though we need to resist some, we are remarkably free to be as stupid as we want.

I think Randy is right: There are a lot of costs to a lot more people than the poor fool who died or, worse, became a ward of the state as vegetable. Higher social costs limit my choices by limiting my wallet a lot more than a rule that says you have to learn on a more modest bike.

 

A squid on a Harley is just as dangerous as a squid on a sport bike (perhaps even more so). It's NEVER NEVER NEVER the fault of the machine for obeying the rider's input. The bike didn't just decided to go 100MPH, even if the throttle stuck experience should have dictated to pull the clutch and hit the kill.

I'm 19 and riding a liter bike (FZ1)..... a scary thought to most. But I'm also not headed (ask stuka). Never been pulled over, never got a parking ticket, never an accident (Motorcycle or Cage).

But really, I get all sorts of nasty looks when I take off my helmet and people are like, "oh shit, there's another whipper snapper hellbent on his own destruction."

 

Does anybody remember the 3 wheelers? They were fun and cheap and usually handed to kids. The were fast and nimble as long as you knew how to ride them. Kids didn't and therefore they died or became crippled. The feral guvmet dispatched with these machines and now they are almost gone; replaced by four wheelers. They are merely a memory among us generation x-er's and the older folk. You can still find them around but who would really want one? It's just an example of the guvmet taking action on things that people make go boom. Gsxr's, Cbr's, Ducati's, Ninja's, etc. are all susceptible to the actions of one senator who get's the wild hair up his ass that these machine are terrorists or an Islamic plot to undermine the safety of the good ol' USA, and all it takes is one earmark on one bill to "regulate" them out of existence. I am not a fan of this.
I am a fan of Darwin. I've had my accidents that were self-inflicted and I lived. I barely made it through one of them. (really, I should be dead from that one) I learned from all of them. It's part of life and evolution to have accidents. Humans among all mammals have the inane fear of falling. How did we get that fear? By falling, of course, and learning from it. Our ancestors, years ago, fell. Their kids didn't. And so it goes;
Johnny Crotchrocket's kids or nephews will learn from his mistakes.

As a child I was forbidden to own a motorcycle because an uncle I had never met was killed on one. When I bought my first motorcycle, I rode it. While I rode, I was f**king terrified. It wasn't until years and miles went by that I actually started to enjoy and relax on my bike. Now every time I go out for a ride, I still think of my uncle and realize that his death and my parents warning made me a better and safer rider. I never took a corner at ludicrous speed when I was young and therefore I was able to hold on to my bike and breath.
Motorcycles are dangerous, there's no denying that. The dangers come from within and the outside world. The laws of physics will forever be the both the enemy and the savior of the rider. I feel for the family and all those involved. It is a tragic way to go, especially when it comes down to having to admit it was because he did something dumb. I can just hear the family pining away and wondering if there was a way to have stopped him from buying that "damn motorcycle". But it is a reminder that no matter how smart you think you are and no matter how big of a hammer you have, the earth will keep turning and it might just turn you upside down and into the ground if you don't follow the rules and watch your dick.
My thoughts go out to the family and friends of this "victim". It still is tragic and nothing will fill the empty space in their hearts. It is now theirs to teach the new riders out there what not to do and how to stay alive in this jungle. I am a fan of community based rider training. What is stopping us from forming our own "school" to inform. It might just be as simple as pulling your visor up at a stop light and saying to the guy on the rocket "slow down or you are going to die". It might be a quick way to a middle finger, but you can say that you tried. Some kids actually listens to the old folks. The ones that don't, well, luck shines on some ones ass every day in some way or another.

 

New riders need actual training. Even experienced riders benefit from training. I don't know if it's the manufacturers, the dealers or the government who ought to be responsible for getting people into classes, but right now no one is taking responsibility, and people are killing themselves and others when they could just as easily be having a good ride.

I responded to an accident scene a few weeks back where a guy tossed his Harley in a curve that was tighter than he realized. He could have made the curve if he'd known how. Even if he lost it, his girlfriend might have lived if she was wearing a real helmet instead of one of the toy helmets that the fashion police make them wear.

I'm sad to hear about a young man dying; but it makes me angry because so often it's just unnecessary and preventable.

Get real training. Wear real gear. Have a good ride.

- Paul in MI copied the post from paul i agree and one thing that has always bothered me is that motorcycle dealers are always selling like the ninjas for exemple to people with no ridding experence at all i think the dealers should have in place a ridding program and requreevery inexpeneced rider to partiapte berfore they sell them a go fast bike just my 2 cents

 

I just read all of these posts. An Interesting thread.
Now (you knew it was coming) my 2 cents.
the graduated license thing might be a good idea. would it end the problem, I doubt it, might reduce it some.
ALL of us know that everything is better with more gvt involvment. Just look what they have done to our economy. I have been riding Bikes since I was 13. originally dirt bikes. My dad (a surgeon) told me and my brothers if he ever caught us on the road with our Bikes we would have to have them surgically removed from a part of our anatomy where it would be very uncomfortable to have a full size dirtbike. I know he is probably turning flips in his grave since now I am riding a VFR on the street. He said he spent too many hours in too many operating rooms trying to patch up people who lost a motorcycular(new word) argument with a cage or a tree. He apparently wasn't always successful. I had twenty years of riding experience under my belt before I ever rode on the street. First street bike I ever rode was a Kawi KZ900 (the fastest production bike made at the time) it was like being shot out of a cannon. I know tha every time i go out on my bike could be my last. through no fault of my own or not. we all need to realize that what we choose to do has consequences and we should not blame others for our mistakes. We all need to know this and we do NOT need government to protect us from ourselves. come on people be responsible. Darwin is always watchin. the gene pool needs culling every now and again. If you don't believe me ask the next Dinosaur you see.
It is tragic when some one is killed by their own stupidity. but legislation won't end the tragedy. it is part of the human condition. If I find myself riding at the edge of my ability then it is my choice to keep doing it or to back off a little where I know my skills are adequate. " A man's got to know his limitations" to quote Clint Eastwood "do you feel lucky ,Punk"

 

That's only 1 1/2 cents. You still owe us:bootyshake2:

 

I'm 48 years old, and I never operated a motorcycle until 2006 when I took the Basic Rider Course offered through the Ohio Dept. of Public Safety, which to this day still has a registration fee of only $25.00. They provide the workbook, the motorcycles, and even helmets. (Bet they smell good!)

The BRC was an eye-opener in many respects. For example, I was amazed that satisfactory completion of this course is not required for those 18 and older in order to legally operate a motorcycle in Ohio.

This quote from Ohio's motorcycle.ohio.gov web site: If you are 16 or 17 years old, you must show proof of completing all GDL requirements and a motorcycle safety course before you are eligible to take the On-Cycle Test, to obtain a motorcycle license or endorsement. If you are 18 years old or above, you are not required to complete either course to take the On-Cycle Test. However, completion of the motorcycle course will help provide you with the skills to pass the test ).

Another Ohio law: . . . No person who is under the age of eighteen years, or who holds a motorcycle operator's endorsement or license bearing a "novice" designation that is currently in effect as provided in section 4507.13 of the Revised Code, shall operate a motorcycle on a highway, or be a passenger on a motorcycle, unless wearing a protective helmet on his head, and no other person shall be a passenger on a motorcycle operated by such a person unless similarly wearing a protective helmet. . . .
"

In Ohio, those 18 or above who seek to legally operate a motorcycle require only a valid Ohio driver license, proof of liability insurance, and a temporary instructional permit (12 months, renewable), while also adhering to the above rules and restrictions.

I met some interesting classmates when I took the BRC. For example, one guy admitted that he'd been 'legally' riding a 1000 lb. Harley yacht for 10 years (he rode it to the class each day, then rode a tiny 250cc Honda on the range with great skills) simply by annually renewing his learners permit, but he finally decided to take the BRC and earn his motorcycle endorsement.

I also met a man who I really came to admire. He had three kids-- two older daughters who had previously taken the BRC with him, as well as a 17 yr. old son who was attending the BRC with him for the first time. This man said that he'd made a rule with his kids in which they had to take the BRC if they wanted to drive their parents' cars once they earned their driver license. He said that even if his kids came away from the BRC with no desire to ever ride a motorcycle again, the course would still teach them invaluable road skills, as well as a much better understanding and respect when it comes to safely sharing the road with motorcyclists. God bless this man-- what a magnificent father he is to teach his kids this knowledge, while taking the BRC with each one of them.

I'm of the opinion that the successful completion of the BRC should be required for all who seek to legally operate a motorcycle, regardless of age, prior experience, etc., and I don't see how this would be too much governmental oversight. What really excuses those who are 18 or older from motorcycling education and skills testing that are mandatory for minors? Our laws don't allow those who are 18 or above to legally drive a car, just based on age, without proper training and certification, so why would we continue to allow this loophole with motorcycles?

 

Excellent discusson on this unfortunate (and preventable) event. I cringe everytime I stop at one of the local dealerships and see an 18-20 year old either considering buying or actually buying one of the liter sportbikes for his first bike. My first street bike (after numerous dirt bikes) was a Yamaha XS400 twin and that was plenty of bike for me at age 18. I also cringe everytime I read in the local newspaper how 3 or 4 people in the area lost control of their bikes trying to negotiate a curve and most of them are described as young riders in their late teens/early twenties.

Like many of you, I do not wish to have the government involved in my life any more than they are. However, when it involves public safety I would have to say I back involvement. When it comes to helmet laws, I say the government should not be involved and it should be a choice. My choice is to wear a helmet, but whether or not I choose to wear a helmet has no bearing on whether or not I'm going to hurt another motorist on the road. I have never read in the newspaper a quote saying "gee, if the motorcyclist would have been wearing a helmet the other motorist would not have been killed". Now, graduated licensure does have an impact on whether or not you hurt or kill another motorist. I believe graduated licensure would at least help ensure motorcyclists are riding a bike that is a little more appropriate based on experienced. Now I agree that a person can kill themself, and/or someone else, just as easy on a smaller displacement bike, but I think it would at least help reduce the number of injuries/fatalities. Let's face it, there are always going to be idiot cyclists out there on the road going like a bat out of hell on smaller bikes. As many of you said...Darwinism will take care of these.

 

I always recommend the zx10 or gixxer 1k for 1st bike ..no use getting 6 or 750 they to slow..:bs: gear what gear look cooler in shorts shades and sandles when in doubt gas it you'll be fine...after a year you'll need a busa or zx14 with 100 shot of nitrous then you will be a man .....:cheersaf:

 

Ahhh yes, graduated licenses! I love this topic, it's always fun!
Lets look into this a bit:
England restricts it's younger riders to 33BHP for a few years, after which (I believe) they have to pass a test to move up.
Japan restricts all riders to under 400cc, but you can upgrade to a "bigger" license by paying lots of money and taking/passing a very hard practical and written exam. They don't have a 600cc class because once you get your upgraded license, why only get 200cc extra?
would adopting a Graduated system like either of the above help out our (American) troubled yooothz? probly not. why? well because faster is better, and having only 400cc or 33BHP just means that junior will have it wrung out to red line 90% of the time vice 1% of the time on a 1Kcc. I'm with everyone else, I don't like uncle sam messin with my fun. But a graduated license system is a happy medium- better than not having liter bikes at all, and a lot more sane than letting snot nose buy a gixxer 1k after passing his permit test.
If your worried about how much fun you can have on 400cc, ride a RVF400 (NO, I wasn't offering....) it's WAY more fun than my CBR954....

 

another perspective...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/us/26sportbike.html