Cam oiling 1985 VF700F

If you have read my intro posting you know that I just got my first Interceptor. It has over 25000 miles on it and it runs great. My question is about aftermarket oiling kits that I've heard of somewhere. I was told about a starvation/insufficiency of oil for the cams pertaining to the "early" v-fours. I have pulled my rear valve cover and I detect no signs of excessive wear. (I'll pull the front later.) Was this situation corrected earlier than '85?
Any other secrets that you may have to share about this vintage of bike please pass them along. If you have any questions about the inline fours of the 70's, I'm your man. I have lots of technical experience with the old Hondas. I love them but long road trips are just not happening on my CB750F. I actually like riding my VF on the highway. The CB, not so much. Thanks and ride safe.----S

 

Secret #1, when checking the oil, don't screw in the dip stick. Let the stick threads seat on the inner rim of the dipstick well. If you screw it in you'll be short oil.

 

This will help: ValveTrain - SabMagFAQ

Getting the oil mod is good insurance against future wear.

My personal opinion is: "If the bike has gotten to 25K miles with no significant scoring, then the cams should be 'OK' ".

If you can afford it, I'd get it...

 

Oily cams

Yes, I agree with the old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it." 25000 miles with no real damage to report is just fine for a dog like me. I thank you for the link and I assure you that I will sleep at night. I have yet to set up the fan override switch. (I am waiting for the right piece of cable to show up that looks good and is oil resistant. I'm an electronics guy and I am meticulous about how I do wiring.) But I imagine that I will be fine for the remainder of the season. We don't have traffic jams out here In Vermont since it doesn't take that long for cows to cross the road. It gets an oil change as soon as I dump my now full reservoir (along with the rest of the fleet) and I'll use some lighter grade that what the CB's get. Now I have to find some saddle bags and a road map........

 

Boy, that's really dangerous to say that. The actual wear and tear depends on the type of riding more than dumb luck. What you are suggesting is that some are ok and some are not depending on production variances. That is just not true.

You need to break it down to when and what causes the problems. First off, the rockers are too soft. That you can't really do much about. The other half is that the oil flow is inadequate. At engine speeds above idle (normal road speeds) the oil flow is plenty enough to supply the top end. It's when you are sitting at idle that's the problem - it's not uncommon to have 0psi, nothing!, at idle. So when the light turns green and you tear off it takes a second to build the pressure again and in the meantime you don't have any oil, or at least not enough, up there.

If you bike is ridden out on the open road where you rarely sit at idle very much then it's unlikely you will have much wear. The problem is two fold 1) you don't know the exact usage of a used bike and 2) just because it's ok now does not mean it will stay that way. So the top end is ok at 25k, fine. What happens if you change the type of riding i.e. your riding is much different from the previous owner's? How can you say that it will still be ok 10k from now? You can't.

Therefore the only real protection is a top end oiling modification. There just simply is no other way to prevent problems. Running without one is taking a big chance, especially now with parts availability being an issue.

 

I agree Jamie. You have very valid points.

In my defense, I did provide a link so that the poster could get a lot of information and make an informed decision.

I also noted that the quote was my "personal" opinion.

And I twice recommended to get the oil mod.

Thanks!

 

I've been waiting for this!

I have waited for the day there would be a meeting of "Senior's". I have waited for an explication of the infamous Vf cam failure issue as well. Now both happen in tandem. BONUS.
We have just the kind of top side wiped out cam situation that you guys have described on my son's '84 Vf 500 f right now. The particulars of that particular fiasco are described elsewhere (See " A vf500" Tale" in 1st and 2nd Gen forum"). My interest is in the description of the problem ( zero oil pressure at idle) and the lack of description of a remedy other than to reach down deep into my son's pocket and give someone $400.00. What is he getting for $400? A higher pressure pump? A larger diameter oil distribution "spider"? I want to know how to avoid paying out the $400? Sit at stop lights with the motor revs at 3000 rpm? Is the pump from another Honda model, one that can be had in a junk yard, viable? What about modifying a Vf 500 pump? Is a Vf 750 pump a viable alternative for what a Vf 500 normally has installed? Can he use a dremel or drill to relieve the oil distribution "spider" on his bike to get increased flow? Can he modify his current pump?

Right now he has 4 wiped out and burned black cams. They have all been mic'ed as "bad". The cam followers did not look worn? The plastigage trick has indicated that he can rebuild using his present heads and cam bearing caps. The reason the cam problems were found was because of cam timing problems. When he parked the bike it was making noise. When he went to adjust valve lash he couldn't. Valve lash was nonexistent. Cam timing was completely whacked but he still could drive the bike. It was running when he parked it in the garage. The rear cam chain had been "tighted" by the SOB PO by hammering a steel rod down the rear top chain guide. Front cam timing appeared to have jumped a cog or two.

Does he need new cam chains too? New cams? New chains?, New chain tensioners and guides? New top end oiler kit too?

 

The solution is a modification to the system that supplies oil to the top end. This is commonly called a top end oiling modification or just oiling modification. The kits that I offer on my site are $125 and others offer a different type of kit for close to $300. Where did you get your $400 number? The details of the kit that I offer can be found on my site.

Whoa! I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but don't mess around with the pump. It's unique to the 500, nothing else will work. If you want to do something, a relief valve (what actually controls the pressure) from an 86 would be my only suggestion. It's a little bit higher pressure than the 84-85 parts.

New cams and rocker arms. The rocker arms are actually the part that fails and takes the cam with them. The chains, tensioners, guides, etc do not need to be replaced.

 

Yes, but what about

I know that I am jumping onto a thread about top end oiling about issues that may or may not be related to top end oil starvation. Sorry, But I am considering buying some used 86 Vf 500 cams to replace a set of 84 Vf 500 cams. I am also being offered a front 86 Vf head by a member you guys helped with rebuilding a set of Vf 500 carbs a little while back (Tjwor). He says that his 86 cams are incompatible with 84 model Vf 500. Can any of you tell me why we can't swap cams? Is it simply a matter of swapping the 86 followers too? Do we have to install 86 heads as well, and why?

I think I would have noticed if the followers were wiped on our Vf 500. They looked fine to me. But I may be wrong. What is the tell tale marking that shows them to be bad?

I read through the top end section of the Clymer manual several times, no notice about differences between 86 and other year Vf500's. I looked at the lower end part in curiosity regarding the chain installation. It appears that the cam chains require the removal of the crank when making a replacement. I saw no reference to a link on the cam chains for replacement without a complete tear down. Did I scan too fast? Is this correct?

I am loath to reuse the cam chains on the bike because of the damage to the top guide and the apparent wear out on the remaining chain guides.

Early in the summer there was a Vf 750 for sale near me that had extreme cam chain noise. It was bought by another VFRW member before I made my move to pick it up. The bike sold for $300 and a helmet. It still ran, much like my sons still ran when he bought it. I have a suspicion that it had much the same problem that our Vf 500 has: a chain, guides and tensioner that have simply seen their wear limits exceeded and jumped off track. If one continues to ride them the chains eventually jump a cog(s) and cam timing goes haywire. An unscrupulous seller might take a rod and hammer to the top chain guide and pound it down and manage to reduce some of the noise and tighten the chain somewhat until it breaks or otherwise self destructs. Is this phenomena due to the top end oil starvation problem as well?

Well, can anyone give me a definitive yes or no on swapping out 84 cams for 86's. What about the followers and replacing the chains? Also, I can't figure out how to remove the long chain guide that is opposite the one articulated by the tensioner. Do you have to remove the "pan" and get at it from the
bottom of the motor?

thanks
DKC

 

The 86 cams have more lift than the 84-85 parts but otherwise should work just fine. That said, I've not actually tried it. I'd give it a shot, especially if they are free. You'll want to replace the rockers where a cam failed, do not put a new cam in where a bad cam came out.