clutchless shift

so i was out for a ride on my 85 700 and i didn't sync well on one of my quick shifts and shifted without squeezing the clutch. it went in to my surprise, very easily and smooth as if i had used the clutch. so whats the deal??

 

n yes im a new rider

 

I've been roadracing for 10 years and I never use the clutch for upshifting. I roll off the throttle to take the load off the transmission and upshift to the next gear. It takes some practice, but once you've got the hang of it it's much quicker than using the clutch, and contrary to what others might say, if done correctly it does not damage anything or wear anything out faster. Downshifting, of course, is a different matter. I always use the clutch to downshift, unless I've broken a clutch cable and I've got to finish the race. Clutchless downshifting can be done, but I wouldn't suggest it.

Kris

 

I'll do it when I'm feeling lazy just tooling around no load on the engine and the like, both up and down. But when I'm feeling frisky, its clutch time even thou it's takes less than a blink or less. I feel it's easier on all things mechanical down there.

 

think of it as a little "slop" in the transmission (gear lash actually)
roll on the throttle.
pre-load the shifter just a bit
drop the throttle a little &
in it goes - snick. that easy.

don't dilly dally
don't futz around with the
RPM's
just as the gears "relax" from everybody pulling on acceleration, there is a little moment when you can slide into the next gear.

I'm not explaining this very well.
go ask your bike.

 

I'm confused

I understand how 'unloading' the trans will let the upshift engage smoothly (I've done it before), what I don't understand is how the clutch less shift accommodates discrepancy in RPM between gears where road speed is held constant.

In context (Using arbitrary numbers):

Bike is cruising at 65MPH in 5th gear at 6krpm. At that speed there is a 1.5k RPM discrepancy between 5th and 6th gear. Transmission is upshifted clutchless. Now, what I don't understand is where the energy from the engine rotating at 6k going down 1.5k to 4.5k goes. I'm thinking that the clutch plates would have to slip momentarily, forced to slip due to the energy involved overcoming the clutch's friction hold, or RPM and road speed are merely forced in sync as if the bike was direct drive. In the later case, I can only see that load being forced upon engine and transmission components.

I know on dirt bikes it doesn't matter because of the limited traction and slack of the chain displaces the energy from clutchless shifting into a light slip/skid of the tire, but street bikes don't have that liberty.

 

If we were all perfect,no one would need a clutch.Clutches just make it easier for normal people. Draining oil without chunks of metal is a good thing.Do what you like,cool is cool,it's your bike I hope.Think bigger on your VFR.Peace and ride

 

hi,
I learnt to up/down shift when I was a young biker. 70's and 80's Moto Guzzi or Benelli had problems with clutch cables (to hard) and it often happened to drive with a clutch cable broken...so I was obliged to drive using without clutch lever. It' s not dangerous for the engine (only, drive smoothly), but very difficult if you are in urban cycle ...imagine "stop and go" with no clutch...but I think that this technique is to learn in order to be a "skilkled" motorcycle driver. "I do not do it, but I can do it if it is necessary".
Lamps to all VFR Owners and have a good summertime !!!!

 

upshifting ok clutchless just roll off throttle. downshifting use clutch. im not good at rev matching for downshifting....

 

I've been riding and racing bikes and quads for longer than I want to remember, and have always used a clutch to upshift when looking for optimum performance such as a holeshot or coming out of a corner. I can take off faster and shift quicker with the clutch, then not using the clutch and having to let off the throttle to allow the shift. My reasoning behind this is that the split second of letting off the throttle tends to drop the engine rpms below optimum range. Then the engine has to climb back up to the optimum rpm once you roll back to wide open throttle. Whereas, when holding the throttle wide open and blipping the clutch for a split second while holding pressure on the shifter, actually either ups the rpm's or stays the same for that split second and then drops minimally once the clutch fully engages and takes the engine less time to get back up to that optimum rpm. I have shown others numerous times, that this technique works better by timing their bikes from point A to point B with them shifting their way and then I take the same bike and shift my way. In all cases, my times have been quicker.

 

Guys,
My 2 cents: yes, a small blip off the throttle drops the rpms quick enough for a clutchless upshift under light or moderate acceleration. I wouldn't count on it not wearing the trans a little more than using the clutch, unless you match rpms and speed perfectly every time. Maybe we'll hear from someone who does it regularly and has over 50,000 miles on the same bike. Of course, sloppy shifts WITH a clutch put loads on the trans too...
I know in cars and trucks with a manual trans, I can match engine rpm with the car speed and make smooth shifts a lot of the time without a clutch. And you can downshift by pulling the stick into neutral, blipping the gas to raise rpms, and then slipping in to the next lower gear. Old-timers called it "double clutching", but that's not an option with a bike trans, as neutral is only between 1st and 2nd, and not the other gears.
Have fun, ride safe,
Geron

 

Every transmission has to have a "false neutral" between gears. When you shift from 5th to 6th, the transmission disengages the gears that are meshed for 5th and then engages the gears that mesh for 6th. If, at any point, both were engaged at the same time you'd break off teeth, or worse lock up your rear tire at speeds matching 5th or 6th gear.