complete dead electrical when "on"

Last week I had an unusual reaction by my VFR, 98. Turned on the bike and tried to start on a cool NorCal morning. Starter turned over a few times but did not catch. Tried again and the bike went completely dead, not even clock. Oddly, the clock came back on when the bike is in OFF position. First thing I thought to do was to charge battery - no improvement, and battery registers about 13 volts when in the bike. Next, I replaced the RR with a spare OEM I had - also no change. This week I thought to try again but still get the same result - the clock is showing when key is in OFF but everything shuts down when i switch to ON.
Any tips? I read something about the stator possibly going bad? I can't find the shop manual I used to have, so help/directions would be highly appreciated. I was really looking forward to riding my bike to my new job with the summer drives down 280!
Actually - 1 thing about the RR. This one had a black wire, I'm guessing it's a ground, but the 98 RR plugs (2 of 'em) don't have a tab for a black wire. Do I need to ground it or is the RR completely incompatible?
Many thanks,
xavier

 

Hmm, that's a tough one for sure!

I don't think it's the stator going bad, the bikes electronics can run completely on battery power until the engine is started, or the battery runs out. The stator only works while the engine is running anyway, it couldn't cause the symptoms you're describing.

My guess is that some accessory that comes on when the key is turned has pretty big short. Electricity always follows the path of least resistance, if a big enough short comes about, it can starve the rest of the system completely of power.

First and foremost, I would purchase a service manual. It'll have the wiring diagram for your bike and point you in the right direction.

But in the meantime while you're waiting for your book to arrive, I'd check the wiring of some things like the headlight/brake light etc. With the bike in the off position and negative lead of the battery removed, use a multimeter at the headlight lamp connector(s) to see if there's any continuity, if there is, you've got a short in the system, at which point tracing it back to its source is a matter of following the yellow brick road.

errr, maybe I'm overthinking this. I believe I read somewhere on here before that your Generation VFR has a main fuse (or set of main fuses) that protect the whole bike. You may have very well blown one of those, which seems like it might be the case because of the symptoms with your starter behavior.

Check your fuse box, it's the cheapest/easiest place to start. But buy the manual regardless.

EDIT: I should also add if you do find it is a fuse, there may be a problem that is causing the fuse to blow. At which point, you'd have to take note of the system that fuse protects and investigate the respective areas

 

I've had to replace a faulty ignition switch on my 5th gen, so that might be the issue.

Fuses all good?

Battery connections good?

Ground connections solid and clean?

Kill switch operating properly?

Electrical connections (plug-ins) clean and properly attached?

 

been a while - totally dead electrical

Sorry gang, I'm remodeling a house and a project at work just picked up in the last 3 weeks.
OK, the bike is completely AWOL on electrical when I turn it on. No lights, no dash, nothing. However the clock comes back on when I turn it to OFF. The bike died this way when i was trying to start it up on a cool Calif. morning.

Battery & connections, fuses are fine. I replaced the RR thinking that was the problem. No improvement. ground to bike is OK too, i checked that. started taking off the fairings and so far haven't seen any shorts/bare wire. I'm starting to wonder if this might be an ignition problem?

x

 

Sounds like battery trouble. Voltage measurements just after charging only tells a small part of the story.
Fully Charge the battery (12.7 V) follow rate and time charging program per mfg, something like .5 amps for 8 hours.) then let the battery sit for an hour. Put a small load on the battery like a headlight lamp for about a minute. THEN check the V. You should still see 12.6V off a good battery.

A weak battery won't push enough current to do anything but run the clock.

Can you fit a replacement? Even jumper cables to the family car battery will do. (Take the questionable battery out of the circuit)

Just trying to help

CalG

 

These are classic signs of a bad battery connection. The bad connection could be at either end of the battery cable, but is most likely at the battery end. If that is not it, check the battery voltage with key off, then turn on the key. Be sure your meter leads are touching the battery terms. and NOT the cable end. There should be only a small drop in voltage. If it bottoms out, bad battery.

 

I agree with eddie. sounds like the battery, while under load such as when trying to start, just doesn't have the juice to get the job done, yet shows full voltage otherwise.

 

I'm having this exact issue with my 96 and it's making me nuts. Rode last Wednesday night fine, Thursday afternoon I turn the key and nothing lights up.

I charged the battery, changed out the starter relay (the tabs were falling off), put in a new R/R for good measure (sounded like a possible culprit) and I'm still getting nothing. I did what was suggested above and checked the battery with the key off and on - no change (and made sure I was on the posts not the cable). Same deal with the clock - it's on until I turn the key to "on" then the clock goes off.

So where do I go next? It was suggested that I get some electronics cleaner, steel wool and dielectric grease and clean all the connectors. If it's a short circuit, is there a website or book that tells you have to test for that? I don't want to have to take this to a shop, but I'm starting to feel like I'm running out of options. thoughts?

 

I think I read most of the posts but get the battery checked.I pulled my hair out in terror with my '90xt600yami this spring.Pulled the battery n took it to the local shop.The tester(a box)indicated the batt. was 20%.Bought a new yusu(?),100$,everything works well w/500miles.My dirt bike is not my vfr,but I thought my batt. was good and it was'nt.Good luck!

 

battery,batter me

The battery will pretend it's good with those tests.It needs a charge/discharge test.Start out simple.This time of year,batteries have gone bad.Bad battery Bad.

 

Another test could be put the voltmeter right on the battery terminals, then put the key to on and see what voltage you are getting the battery.

 

For anyone still following this saga, here's the latest, as it's still not powering up:

- tested the battery with the bike on and off, and I get 12.7 every time. I've checked it a few times for the past few days, nothing much has changed there, maybe a minor dip. putting the meter on the terminals, not the cables
- put in a new starter relay since mine was corroded and two of the four tabs were coming off.
- put in a new R/R since it sounds like most problems with 4th gens are the R/R
- cleaned the connectors to the battery with steel wool and some baking soda / soda water mix (they're nice and brassy now)
- cleaned the connectors to the starter relay
- checked the ground wire, cleaned it for good measure
- checked the fuses up front, all were fine.

I don't remember if I mentioned this in earlier posts, but I got the battery in April (2 months ago). So unless it's a bum battery, or one of the components dying killed it, I'm confused. Going to borrow a friend's battery in the morning and see what it does, and if I get juice, I'll go buy a new one.

it's been 9 days since I've ridden, I'm going through withdrawal. anyone have a spare VFR I could borrow? :redface:

 

What does the voltage read while you are holding the "start" button in?

 

nothing changes. I tested it first at 12.74
turned the key, tested at 12.74 again. pushed in the start button (with Run off, then on), and it never changed from 12.74 I haven't had the battery on the tender in about a week now.

And just to be sure, I'm put the points of the multimeter into the center of the screws that go into the battery. Yesterday I tried cables vs. screws, and it's still the same.

 

I'm wondering if you have a dirty connection on one of your wiring harness connectors. I don't know VFR's very well, but 6th gens have several large multi-pin connectors on the wiring harness that are located behind the front fairing area. If the "replacement" battery experiment doesn't work, it might be worth checking all of the harness connectors, particularly since your starter relay plug had some issues.

 

I spent this morning going through each plug on the harness, taking it apart, cleaning with steel wool, a wire brush and adding dielectric grease. Still no dice. The only things I can think of are:

1) one or two of the connectors on the starter relay still look bad even after cleaning
2) a short somewhere, which is a bit beyond my skill level, so I'll need to do some more research before delving into that one.

not giving up yet.

 

sorry, forgot to add:

tried a friend's battery after seeing it start his bike, same symptoms on mine (no lights, no nothing)

 

If there is no change in the battery voltage reading when the starter button is pressed to turn the engine over, There is NO connection to the starter motor. ANY battery will show a dip in voltage when an electric motor is energised. The starter motor is NOT getting energised. (Check with the bunny) The starting relay is the unit to check. Take the unit off the bike and "bench check" by connecting 12 V to the coil terminals and listening for the "click" as the contacts make. If you put an Ohm meter on the load terminals and see a change from infinity to 0 ohms as the coil is energised, things may be in good order. Most any other condition makes the relay suspect.

Best luck

Cal

 

if the battery is good and the connections the starter should turn when u jump the 2 screws on the solnoid even with the plug of wires that connects to the solnoid disconected that goes to the ignition in should still turn the starter even without the key in, i have had problems in the past with my cdi boxes making my bike do all sorts of weird things< they r in the back above the rear tire under the rear crowl, if they get wet or burnt out can cause many problems, might not be the answer in this case but if u have tried everything else its worth a shot, also check all your fuses and fuseable links, just because a fuse looks good, it may not be good, test them or buy some new ones and replace em, let me know how things work out

RAZOR TONGUE

 

The same thing happened today to me on my 02. I rode all day yesterday. When i came home and up my street I wound it tight in first, then everything went dead. I pulled in the clutch and hit the starter and it fired right up.

I got up this morning, went to get some breakfast. It started and rode normal. When I came out from breakfast, put the key in, the dash came on, the fuel pump started, then suddenly everything shut down. Clock on with key off, turn key on, nothing and clock goes off. Got towed home, hooked my battery to the charger and it immediately showed green. Its not the battery. I did find out from the original owner that the wiring harness recall was performed. He told me he has had zero issues with the bike. It has 17K on the odo. Guess I need to take it into Honda after I check the fuses. I suppose it could be a relay.

Guess what I heard about electrical problems with this bike are proving to be true.