Interesting ATGATT reaction

Living proof ! Good to hear you made it OK...relatively anyways.

 

Zona, glad you're OK after your get off and I hope you can find another bike to fill the void left by your VFR. I think posting pics of your gear would help drive home the importance of ATGATT more than any words could ever do. I'll take a sore knee over the alternative...

Once again glad you're doing well! :thumb:

 

Lessons learned the hard way...

I'm a physician, and I'm also among those who are orthodox practitioners of ATGATT. In addition, no one gets on the back of my bike unless they (1) own full protective gear from head-to-toe, and (2) they're familiar with 2-up riding.

I've been through two low-side crashes, and in both cases my full riding gear saved my bacon. In the first crash, I was riding solo, westbound on Ohio Rt. 56 in a very rural section of Vinton county (I'd been over this stretch of road many, many times, in both directions), when I momentarily spaced out while riding the last portion of an S-curve. I entered that last left-hand, decreasing radius curve way too hot, with a bad entry line, and I ended up low-siding to the right, destroying a new '07 BMW K1200GT in the process, but I was fortunate enough to walk away with only trivial injuries.

A very pleasant and kind Ohio State Highway Patrol officer soon arrived at the scene. He looked me over and the first thing he said was something like "I really want to congratulate you for wearing all of that riding gear...This is a bad stretch of road..."

He then took in the scene further: An expensive BMW motorcycle, trashed in a field; a rider wearing expensive, full gear, who has a full set of nice teeth, talks educated with good grammer like city folk... "You're not from around here, are you?" I said I live in the Columbus area.

The tow truck driver, Andy (who is a magnificent person and a life-long motorcyclist) said, "Is you a doctor or something like that?" I chuckled and said yeah, I'm a doc. Thank you so much for helping me! Andy was a great motorcycling "psychotherapist" and a source of comfort and encouragement as I rode with him towards Columbus with my dead BMW on the back of his truck.

My 2nd low-side crash occurred while riding my new 2007 VFR with a very experienced co-rider on Ohio Rt. 669, at Malta. Like me, my lady co-rider was wearing full gear from head-to-toe. We'd previously rode ~6000-7000 miles together without a hitch, when all of the sudden the rear tire (Metzeler M-4) lost traction in a slow, 90 degree left hander. We most likely hit a film of antifreeze or some such thing. (It was not gravel.) The policeman agreed, and so I was not cited for Failure to Control. The damage to the VFR was only cosmetic, to the tune of ~$1500.00.

At any rate, we both slid about 30-50' on our left side, and when we finally came to a stop, our Autocom link was still active. I said are you OK? She said I'm OK but my leg is pinned under the bike. I was able to free my left leg and get up, but her left leg was still pinned...

As it turned out, 400 firemen and medics happened to be close by because they were in Malta for a weekend training exercise. They immediately came to our aid (God bless them all), lifted the bike and freed her. Once they determined and were assured that we were both fine, guess what they said..? (Hint: The wisdom of choosing to ride while wearing full protective gear from head-to-toe... ATGATT!)

Both us of came through this low speed, low-side crash without a scratch to our bodies, but our left-side boots, pant legs, and jackets were pretty chewed up. Our expensive, well padded, textile riding gear (and Sidi leather boots) were pretty chewed up, just from this low-speed slide, but we came through this unscathed. Had we not been wearing full, heavily protective riding gear, both of us would've suffered severe injuries. The gear did it's job. Once we got home, we took off the gear, said a prayer of thanks, and tossed it in the trash. It was cooked. It did it's job. We bought new gear. (FirstGear TPG)

Lessons remembered and learned

1) Extreme RoadRash: Cause Effect and Lesson Learned - SpeedFreakInc.com You've probably seen this article before. It's always worth another look.

2) The term "Road rash" is really a very bad euphemism for the severe bodily injuries that occur when unprotected or inadequately protected body parts and skin are subjected to severe abrasions. The resulting injuries are not merely "rashes". In fact, they are actually much the same as 2nd and 3rd degree burn injuries. Our skin is best thought of as a vital bodily organ.

3) Young riders (and their co-riders) often feel as though they are somehow
invincible, as if accidents may befall others, but they are somehow immune. Young riders often have a poor sense of their own mortality and morbidity.

4) Among many riders from all age groups, there may be an unwillingness or inability to purchase full protective riding gear, from head-to-toe. Reasons may vary, but the fact is that acquiring and religiously wearing full gear is expensive, seemingly cumbersome and inconvenient, and in warm weather it's often hot as hell....

We have a choice... we can choose to adhere to ATGATT, or we can throw caution to the wind. Among those who scoff at the wisdom of ATGATT, get back to us and report in if you happen to require the services of a medical helicopter, intensive care unit, burn unit, etc.

Even if one chooses to do without ATGATT, what about your co-riders? In an accident, co-riders are more often maimed or killed than the rider.

 

I would like to have met this nice lady. It's so unusual to hear a reaction like that.

Isn't it funny that when we hear of a good reaction that we also get warm & fuzzy? I really wish it was the other day around.

A day or two ago, I stopped for an Italian ice. Of course, I got the look from the HOG's. The funny part is, they actually look at me like I'm the stupid one.

As a wise person said, "Walking away in digust beats riding away in an ambulance."

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

I saw guy here in California a few days ago wearing shorts, t-shirt, sneakers w/ full helmet, back protector and knee armor strapped to his bare legs! wtf? :unsure:

I will go with only a helmet and some mesh gloves when going around the corner to the grocery, not getting over 30mph. Better than the spandex worn while on the bicycle, the 'Stich makes hill climbing and sprints so difficult!

 

More living proof.

Gross Accident Images: Dangerous Motorcycle Driving - 10 Daily Things

 

Nice story, RedRover.

My name is Alaskan I was a squid. I routinely rode in a tee-shirt in hot weather. Invincible!??? What an idiot! After my first - and only - street crash, I wised up. It's been ATGATT for me for the last 30 years.

 

That's a nasty pic! I've seen it before, but I don't understand why certain articles keep saying he lived.

That rider died from the impact with the truck.

Glad the rider had 'some' gear on, but ATGATT does not help when you slam into a hard object at 120 mph.

BZ

 

i just went out and bought a tour-master mesh jacket so I can have a summer jacket to ride with instead of T-shirt. I always wear my gear and im happy to see other people who ride in the same fashion

 

Ya. I kinda wondered that too. But all I had to go in was what was printed. If you look at his feet, they are pale. Look at his neck area and there is no blood probably cause the heart is stopped, and in the back ground there is an Ambulance. I would think any and all EMT's would be on this guy like two minutes before they arrived. Unless of course he is dead. Reminds me of a Porsche slamming into the back of a semi here years ago. When I got to the scene and looked at the Porsche driver, his eyes were wide open and he had that look of Wholly F&*K on his face. But DOA. And besides, I think I watched a program a while back that a 70 (?) or so MPH sudden stop would rip your organs from their places within. Again DOA

Gotta find a more cheerful forum for a while. I retired from that stuff.

 

In Finland, we ride in full gear all the time. Sometimes jeans, in the city 60 km/h. And wheather here changes very fast, its smart to wear proper outfit. Its wierd, you can ride a bike without a licence. Very dangerous.
: Sorry, my english writening isnt very good.

 

Your English is great, especially compared to most Americans' Finnish (except in the UP of Michigan, where it seems there are more Finns than in Finland!)

Well, if anyone here needed convincing here is a quick story from my group ride today- went out with three Ducati Monsters, an R6, and one Gixxer liter bike, covering about 250 miles of some of the best twisties Utah has to offer. All but one of these guys is way faster than me, but I kept up well enough on my new CBR600RR.

The Gixxer rider happens to be a co-worker, but with my travel schedule and time away from the office I never met the guy before today. Great rider, extremely fast and very smooth.

He wore all the gear except gloves.

Over lunch we were discussing gloves, I was explaining why I had switched to my less than completely comfortable but supportive Taichi gloves over a new set of Lee Parks Deersports I was trying, halfway through the ride.

...and he happened to mention that he doesn't like riding with gloves at all.

This guy is a master machinist in my company, I joked about how the guy with the most need for healthy hands is the one who doesn't wear gloves. He tells me his plan is to simply tuck and roll if needed. I mentioned that instinct would act way before he could think about what to do...

I bet you can see what's coming...

Sure enough, 6 hours into the ride on the way back, while leading his squadron of three bikes (I was in the trailing squadron of 3) he comes into a curve in a canyon that has dropped a LOT of bikes recently and lowsides his Gixxer- hard. Goes sliding face-first over several yards of asphalt and gravel.

Helmet saves his face. Jacket saves his forearms and chest (both items gave their lives in performance of duty- zipper tab gone on jacket, holes in forearms and chest, helmet and visor took some grinding). Knee banged up but not too bad.

Hands looked like hamburger. Bloody, rare, and no doubt, very painful hamburger. Palm skin gone on 30% of one hand, back of the other cut up as well. No broken fingers but pain and swelling.

I gave him my first-aid kit which I always keep in the backpack, doused it with topical Benzocaine, Neosporin and cleaned them up as best he could.

Other than beating himself up for stupidity and mourning the once-pristine Gixxer, he handled it all pretty well.

But, I am sure that was an uncomfortable ride home...

Then there's the story of how a pickup truck full of ...immigrants... stopped and tried to make off with my bright red Arai Corsair which I had one of the guys place on the road edge 50 yards ahead of the curve as a warning to other bikers... I will save that story for another time.

But I had a real brief moment there when my mind was occupied by the thought of the H&K P7 in the quick-deploy pouch in my backpack rig...

 

That story is so sad, so unnecessary. Among all of the essential items included in full protective riding gear (a'la ATGATT) high quality, gauntleted riding gloves are truly the least inconvenient, the least expensive, and the easiest to use.

How ironic that this accident happened to your friend within hours after he'd been duly warned about the inadvisibility of riding without wearing highly protective gloves, especially given his occupation, and especially when riding rather competitively (i.e., aggressively) on the street.

In my opinion, adequate hand protection is as critical as head and eye protection. The motor and sensory areas of the human brain's cerebral cortex which are devoted to the fine dexterity and fine touch of our fingers and hands are huge compared to most other motor and sensory areas of the body controlled by the brain. Indeed, the highly evolved, exquisite dexterity and touch sensitivity of our fingers is one of the most defining features that separates humans from lower primates and mammals.

Aside from helping to protect our hands and fingers from severe injuries, wearing gloves also protects our hands and fingers from a multitude of less ominous but very uncomfortable things while riding fast, such as being whacked by airborne pebbles, stones, large insects (often of the stinging variety), large rain droplets, etc. Preventing painful sunburn and wind burn is another good reason to wear riding gloves. Moreover, padded gauntleted gloves which cover the wrists will provide a modicum of wrist protection.

A few other thoughts regarding safe riding gear...

1) Blue jeans provide little if any protection under real-world riding conditions(Extreme RoadRash: Cause Effect and Lesson Learned - SpeedFreakInc.com BRC). Unfortunately, the Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Basic Rider Course may be unwittingly perpetuating this myth, because the course currently requires only that students wear, at minimum, blue jean pants. While jeans may provide a modicum of lower body and skin protection during the very slow speed exercises on a typical BRC training range, blue jeans are worthless in the real world. As the above link attests, if one should happen to hit the pavement and slide while wearing jeans and a sweatshirt, these fabrics will disintegrate within a few short seconds, and what remains will become imbedded in one's skin, right along with gravel, dirt, etc.

2) Some feel that it's not necessary to practice ATGATT when riding only short trips to the local grocery store, or wherever. However, statistics repeatedly show that the vast majority of motorcycle accidents actually occur within a small radius of home or other very familiar locations. The BRC emphasizes this pitfall in which we may tend to be less vigilant and more easily distracted when we're riding within a self-perceived, false zone of comfort, when in fact this is when we may be most likely to get into trouble.

Indeed, I've often found that local neighborhoods, streets, and shopping center parking lots are often the most treacherous and unpredictable situations. In these familiar locations, I find that if I'm not paying attention, cagers tend to not only fail to see motorcycles, they may just as well see us and assume that it's perfectly OK to pull out in front of us, often with direct eye contact (never trust that) along with a friendly wave and smile as they do so (often while they're talking on a cell phone, or while they're simultaneously talking to, and looking at their kids in the rearview mirror).

These morons seem to be oblivous of the fact that motorcyclists have equal road rights and an equal share of the road. They often misjudge our speed; they often tailgate us; they often closely pull in, in front of us, totally ignorant of the fact that we're trying to maintain a 2-4 second separation and a safe distance between ourselves and forward traffic. How silly. It's as if they're going to get where they're going much faster by angrily and impatiently tailgating us, then passing (often on the inside), and then abruptly cutting in front of us. Gee, I guess they showed us who's boss...

3) I'm a relatively new rider (~24,000 miles since 6/06). I mostly ride alone, although last year I gained some invaluable experience riding with another motorcyclist (mainly with my older brother, who is a veteran motorcyclist), but I've not yet been part of a group ride.

At any rate, when I first rode with my brother last summer, my bike was equipped with Autocom's Super Pro AVi kit, but his was not. As we rode, I was ignorant of the basic rule of riding with other motorcyclists, which is to ride your own ride. Thus, I found myself struggling to keep up with him at times, yet I was unable to directly communicate with him. He'd assumed that I knew the rule of "ride you own ride".

Soon after this, I provided him with all of the necessary Autocom gear, along with a Kenwood FreeTalk XL 2-way radio for hands-free, VOX-activated bike-to-bike communication, and my God, what a difference this made when we rode throughout southwestern North Carolina and Tennessee, including Deal's Gap, etc.

I think it's unfortunate that a great many riders seem to dismiss or fail to even think about the inestimable value of going to the considerable trouble and expense of equipping their bikes and helmets with a communication system such as those offered by Autocom. (My advice would be to avoid any current BlueTooth products. BlueTooth eats battery power, while Autocom is hard-wired for power, rider-to-passenger communication, as well as directly powered bike-to-bike FM radios.)

When riding with another biker, the ability to effortlessly talk (hands-free) with another rider is not only a powerful safety tool, it's also great fun. For example, the lead rider can effortlessly report and alert trailing riders of any potential problems, such as curves with nasty patches of gravel, a loose dog hell-bent on chasing bikes, a treacherous decreasing radius curve, etc., etc. Moreover, simple messages can be exchanged such as being low on fuel, needing to take a break, etc., as well as sending out a SOS if one breaks down or goes down.

In the case of your friend, in which he was in the lead while you were trailing him, a bike-to-bike communication system would've allowed you to alert him that the upcoming curve is very tricky, so please slow down, and be extra careful.

 

Rover,

Some well considered and eloquent points.

I will point out though, I would honestly not be inclined to warn a superior/more experienced rider of something that he is well aware of. It's that pesky fine line between being helpful and being distracting...

 

Shin, your point is well taken. Sorry for getting a little carried away! :redface:

 

I like MY skin. I will protect it.
Other people's skin is negotiable.
Skinless people are what keep me in business.

 

Red,

You certainly have nothing to apologize for, I for one might enjoy hearing from a fellow concerned rider who has good advice, and on a long trip I think wireless comms would be quite useful.

I think my point, which I didn't make very well at all, is that good riding is largely a mental game- and as a world level athlete in a sport with a great deal of mental focus required (archery to be specific), I wouldn't want to be told something that might raise doubt before executing a difficult skill.

Because I am hard-wired for my mental game in archery and in practical pistol, that same mindset personally precludes me from saying something negative like "be careful" to another rider, before that rider takes on a tough set of turns. Especially as I am by no means a world level rider!

That's where I was coming from. Sorry I was not more clear.

 

Shinigami that was a good post. I ride with helmet, jacket, and gloves. I've been thinking of finding a good pair of riding pants and your post has finally motivated my lazy @$$ to order a pair and just deal with the heat. They should be here by the end of the week. Any comments on the Fieldsheer Titanium Air 2 Pants.

 

Always wear a raincoat in the storm.

 

I was wearing FirstGear's new TPG pants and jacket when I recently low-sided. When I later looked at how chewed up the left pant leg was, I thought Oh my God, what if this had happened during hot weather and I'd been wearing my lightweight Joe Rocket Alter Ego pants and Phoenix jacket?

I've since abandoned the above mentioned Joe Rocket mesh gear. I now realize that it's just too flimsy. The Alter Ego pants have woefully inadequate padding, particularly in the hips and rear pelvic/tailbone region. (In addition, the overall quality and worksmanship is shoddy.)

This led me to the task of trying to figure out which manufacturer is currently making the most protective, well ventilated, comfortable, and well designed hot weather riding gear. When it's 95 degrees in the shade, wearing heavy textiles or leathers is an invitation to misery, dehydration, and heat stroke. I reasoned that the logical solution to this dilemma would be a product line that has to be based on some form of meshed synthetic fabric design and construction, while also being endowed with the most substantial padding and semi-hard armor in critical body regions, particularly the knees and pelvis.

So, I recently went to Iron Pony in search of such products, and after very carefully inspecting and feeling a large array of mesh gear from a variety of manufacturers, I concluded that the hands-down winners are FirstGear's Mesh Tex 2.0 pants, along with their new Rush mesh jacket. In other words, I feel that these FirstGear products may currrently be among the best compromises between adequate ventilation in hot weather on the one hand, along with the best padding and armor on the other hand.

I welcome your opinions!