Little HELP Please. Valves. 4th Gen

Started bike up last week to the sound of some ticking coming from front of engin area. Thought valve adjustment. Parked bike until last night when I was able to pull cover off and do some measuring. Everthing was within specs except one Intake valve on the #2 cylinder that I could not even get a .02 feeler gauge in. Went ahead and pulled Cam and valve bucket for futher inspection and what I found is puzzling to me and need some input. The keepers or cotters have popped out of place and not sure why? Is it something that wears or is a stuck or bent valve? Or did it simple come loose? I am trying to attach pics for you all hope it works. ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT. THANKS in advance. Mike

 

Does not look good, my friend.

It looks from your pictures that one of the two valve keepers has gone missing. There should be two keepers on each valve. This explains why your clearance was only 0.02, because the valve is being pulled up too far by the spring.

With any luck, the one remaining keeper has prevented any valve to piston contact, but I think that you're going to have to pull that head and install new keepers (on at least that valve), and possibly a new valve if it has contacted the piston. If that has happened, you may even need a new valve guide and associated seals.

The $1,000,000 question is this, however:

Where is that other valve keeper??? :unsure:

 

Thanks VT VIFFER for your responce.
It is hard to see in pics ( sorry cell phone camera ) but one of the keepers is in place where it is supposed to be and the second popped out of grove and forced shim upwards into cam. So both keepers are accounted for but why it did this is the question. Could a sticking valve or bent valve cause this and valve needs replaced or is it just that the keeper is bad and it needs replaced? Has anyone experienced this before?

 

The bike was also running fine as well other then ticking noise. Had it out on a run for a couple hours. Did not notice any performance issues or other noises. :unsure:

 

Thats a strange situation there! Maybe high Revs? and the valves started floating? I would put the keepers back in place and check the valve clearence, maybe its too far off and that is what caused it to come loose?

 

Thanks SLOVFR, No high revs. I am still a newbe when it comes to riding and nothing but back roads and low speeds. I do have another question, is there any trick to putting keepers back in place without removing the head? Such a pain in the :censored: and have to buy a new head gasket.

 

When I had to change my valve springs in my 67 mustang I bought an adapter that screwed into the spark plug hole. The end of the adapter then fitted to my air hose to pressurize the cylinder and hold the valve up. Im sure you can find one at your auto parts store. What ever you do I would make sure the piston is at the top, might keep the valve from falling all the way into the cylinder. Brian

 

Thanks again Brian,
I spoke to a mechanic here at the car dealership that I work for, and he said the same thing about air pressure but could not figure out how to compress valve spring since it is in a hole and not in the open. He gave me a tool to borrow that works on cars and he said try it, so I will and see if it works. If not I guess I will be pulling the head. Sucks! :frusty:

I am still worried about why this happened. Mybe you are right and clearance was way off. Its frustraiting cause I have put alot of work into this bike to give it life and I keep running into little stuff like this. Thanks again.

 

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone on this site. I have learned alot and I enjoy reading the info. I hope with more time I will be able to contribute as much as I get. Thanks again!!!!! Mike

 

Look closely for a broken valve spring. It can be very hard to see. Also, weak valve springs can cause this. I do think that valve float is your most likely cause. This can be from High revs (like slovfr said) or a broken/weak spring. Unless the keeper or valve is stripped out, the only way the keeper can come off is for the valve to come up while the spring is down.
As far as reinstalling the keeper without pulling the head, Put air pressure in the spark plug hole to hold the valve up, for sure. Then, there is a tool which holds the keepers, then you hit the tool with a hammer. This pushed the spring down while placing the keepers in place all in one good "whack". See your local Snap-On dealer.

 

Do try to make sure that the piston in that cylinder is at top dead center, or close. That way, if you lose air pressure or anything goes wrong, the valve will only fall until it hits the piston. If the piston is down in the cylinder, the valve can drop all the way in.

 

Thanks again for advise. Will look for tool, but will more then likley pull the head just so I can inspect valve and make sure it is not bent, worn, and make sure it did not hit the piston head. Still sucks though cause I thought I would get the bike on the road this weekend and I am chomping at the bit to get out and ride.


But I guess patients is better then a blown up motor or something. :kaboom:



Thanks again to everyone. :hail: :team2:

 

I had a similar happening on an 85 vf500 I owned, except the keeper didn't pop out, but was on the verge of doing so. The problem in that case was the valve stem end and groove the keepers fit in had somehow become distorted.

Another possibility that hasn't been mentioned...valve sticking in guide, due to excessive carboning, corrosion, improper fit etc.

The right thing to do is remove head, valves...this kinda thing bears close inspection. Sounds like you realize how close you were to a very fragmented mess.

 

Thanks Dizzy,

Yes I am giong to pull head and check it out.

Another question?? When I pull the head, can anyone give me an idea of what to look for or what to do if the valve is sticking a little? Replace valve or should I just clean it up or lube it somehow. Reason I ask is since I will be taking one valve out to inspect I was thinking of doing them all so I know the rest of them are good as well. Has anyone done this before?

 

I haven't tackled a valve job on the VFR, but a valve (once the spring has been removed) should move up and down in it's guide smoothly and without binding. It should also rotate freely with very little play.

As far as inspecting the valve stem, look for significantly worn marks on the stem itself.

If it fails any one of these tests, it will need to be replaced. In addition, I also suspect a weak or broken valve spring. I would replace these, the keeper and the valve all to be safe.

-Matt

 

Thanks Matt,

It will be a learning experiance. I am good with a wrench and I guess the best way to learn is to get in there and do it. A least we all have a site like this for when we get into a jam. I will let you know what I find later this week. I am waiting for the head gasket to come in before I go any further. Any other advise will be would be great. The more you know the better.:nod: Thanks again. Mike

 

Sure Mike, ask away. I've been a tech for nearly 25 years. I've removed and installed valves, guides, cut seats on all type of Honda heads. Really, you'll need some special tools to disassemble the head once it's off the bike, and there are numerous snafus. If you have a local Honda dealer with a good, experienced tech...you may want to just bring the head in and let them do the work.

 

Diz,

I did a little reading and I know I need a Valve Spring Compresser but do I actully need the Honda specific tool or do you think I could get away with one that is at local auto parts store?

I would take it to the local Honda dealer but I also love tinkering with stuff :smash:and doing it myself would save alot of money and give me the oppertunity to learn even more about the bike so in the future if I there is a problem I would know that much more. Might take more time but that does not cost anything.

 

I see your point. The main problem to overcome with the valve spring decompresser is size. The striking thing about modern 4 valve heads is how tiny the moving parts are. I use the OE tool and I don't know the answer to your question about generic types working, most undoubtedly are way too large. You need one small enough to depress the spring retainer, and open enough to allow you access to the very tiny keepers. The snafu here is the bore for the lifters is tight to the springs...and they CANNOT be nicked up in any way. If you cut the end off a 35mm film container and cut it so it fits between the bore and the springs, it is good protection.

 

Awesome tip. Did not think of that and would not even have considered doing something like that. You definatly know your stuff. Thanks for advise and I will let you know how it goes. Will be doing it this weekend if head gasket comes in. Thanks for your help and advise again. Mike.