gas prices

Yes, I'm well aware of that. But that's really true of any source of information these days to some degree or another. The makers of "Who Killed the Electric Car" had an agenda and their work product probably promotes that agenda, just like Michael Moore's movies present his view on things. It often seems to me there is not truly objective source of information anymore.

 

OK, first off Michael Moore sucks. He doesn't make documentries. He's a turd. But that is another thread.

WKtEC? does have some propaganda behind it, no dought, but I highly recommend watching it. The filmakers asked some really hard questions that GM refused to answer. The best part of the documentry is when the auto industry concedes to the Clinton white house regarding 'hybrid' technology. The only company to take that mandate seriously was Toyota. The US auto manufactures scoffed at Toyota believeing they never make any money on the Toyota Prius.

Who's laughing now? Strike 109 on the US auto manufacturers for being behind again. As usual the Japanese companies shag Detriot:ncb:

I don't think there is any big conspiracy other than crappy American auto maker business practices.

The documentry is right. The US auto industry never took the EV1 series seriously. They made it to appease California while they lawyered up and sued and lobbied CA government into submission. Why they did this who knows:unsure: Its obvious the EV1 was only good as a city commuter. The technology was not their to make a electric car that runs 500 miles.

And as far as the expalnation from GM "we wouldn't make any money". Statements like this make me relize why American companies have such hard time surviving.

I've come to realize our beloved VFR could never have been built by an American company, especially with its rocky beginnings.

BZ

 

I happen to agree with a lot of what he has to say. The problem is what I was saying earlier, there's no middle ground in his stuff. I don't care if I agree with every single word someone utters, there's always several other sides to an issue. If a person won't even make an effort to show the other side I get annoyed. I'm sick and tired of everyone having to prove they are "right." Is it so hard to say, "Hmm, you might have a point there. Let me think about that."

In the 70s (IIRC) the Japanese self-imposed car exports to the US to avoid the government hitting them with tariffs. It was protectionism of the US auto industry, pure and simple. Americans were demanding smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles. Did the US auto industry take that opportunity to invest in research and development? No, they kept making huge gas guzzlers and the executives paid themselves big fat bonuses.

When things aren't going in their favor they scream for protection and bailout money. Then they turn around and demand that everyone capitulate to their whims (as evidenced by the CA lawsuits you mentioned).

Still isn't. The $110k Tesla has a 250 mile range (and I'm willing to bet that that is extremely optimistic). Until I can buy an electric that'll go 500-600 miles on a single charge I can't have one as my only vehicle.

 

To be fair, when most people talk about the EV1 (and if you Google "EV1") you find references to the GM electric car that was produced from 1999 to 2003. That is to say, the car shown below.



To be honest, I didn't know that an electric version of the S-10 ever existed. With the new information provided I did a few searches and it seems it is more commonly known as the S-10 EV rather than an EV1 (although it is based on the EV-1 platform).

No one was calling you a liar. You made reference to the EV1 (the car), and the fact of the matter is that GM refused to sell those to private individuals. They donated a few to universities and destroyed the rest.

 

Electric vehicles are a farce for several reasons.

1) They don't go anywhere near far enough on a charge.

2) If you do run out of charge, NO ONE is going to let you plug your car in & run up their electric bill.

3) The power to charge the batteries comes from a power plant which must burn more oil or coal (70% of the electricity in the US is from fossil fuels) or put more load on the reactor or wind turbines, etc. In this regard, the single only thing they do is reduce emissions by a single vehicle. The fossil fuels are still being consumed to charge the batteries yet everyone who supports electric vehicles seems to overlook this fact.

4) You can't do any "real" work with them. Ever see an electric tow truck? I didn't think so.

I'm all for alternatives & reducing fuel consumption, but not when it's a total BS farce that doesn't do squat but make the greenies happy. Same goes for hybrids. Make one that actually lives up to the hype & they won't be able to make them fast enought to meet the demand.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

Hey Jason,
With having two battery packs now and being updated batterys, thats 52 batterys total 26 per pack, and the updates to the rest of the system
running on one pack at a time with 2 adults at 55 mph it should have a range of 60-75 miles but that was in the S-10 ? i guess we will have to see ?

 

I remember in 1998 the sparkletts water would get delivered in a electric truck ? but im not sure where that went ? Ev Archive for October 2000

 

So what is that, 1/1000th of 1% of the total delivery vehicles on the road?

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

KC, you got a point. i know the truck only ran two days a week it keep bracken down even cough on fire two times

 

Thanks for chating Craig. This is when the internet is a pain. Too hard to sit down with someone and talk about issues.

By the way, Speed's EV1 was featured in WKtEC? The EV1 from GM was featured on the front and in the film, but all the main car manufacturers retro fitted standard vehicles, so they didn't look different.

I didn't know any survived.

 

4. KC, they arn't designed to do any real work other than haul someones butt from point A to B within a 50-60 miles radius.

I think its pretty cool Speed has one.

BZ

 

You are absolutely right, I forgot to mention that I must give my respect to Speed for taking matters into his own hand & procurring what he wanted or needed.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

$4.25 / gal here in Cali yesturday. Making last weeks 4.09 a bargin.

 

Power plants, esp. co-gen, even coal, etc, are far more efficient than the internal combustion engine and much cleaner when considering the power gen/fuel consumption. It can get better but it's a difference of ~20% vs. ~85% efficiency. I'd happily take a 150-mile electric vehicle with a small motor to charge the batteries, hydrogen powered preferably. The GM Volt looks promising.

I thought electric motors generated significant torque? Maybe someone can provide some data, seems like they would be great for tow trucks if they were reliable and had range.

 

Electric vehicle develop maximum torque at 0000 RPM. The Tesla Roadster is an example of what can be done with them with the proper motivation.

They are still too expensive & nowhere near reliable or pratical for everyday use which is why they are not even a speck on the radar screen of relevancy in the vehicle world.

I agree the Chevy Volt is the most promising one yet. It's a shame they will price it out of reach of the common consumer & it will be a market failure as a result.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

The EV1 was a failure because gas was still under a buck a gallon. I think the motivation is there to make a much greater success of it this time around. Like any new technology, early adopters will pay dearly for it (note the Tesla Roadster, as you mentioned), but as the adoption rate increases it will drive down prices.

I'm kind of wondering why all the focus on electric cars right now. What happened to hydrogen fuel cell technology? We never seem to hear much about that anymore.

 

I think the real issue is distribution of hydrogen, plus the H generation takes power which comes from fossil fuel plants. Iceland is trying to make headway in this area, but they have clean geothermal power to generate the hydrogen.

 

Both need somekind of massive breakthrough in clean base load electricity production to go mainstream, if only cold fusion was real then people could forget the middle East exists again.