Last night a couple of us were debating why this rider went down, check out this 10 second video and give us your opinion on what caused this riders mishap... Motorcyclist crashing his Honda on a corner of the road
Either/or braked too hard, and gravel washed out the front end. He was riding too far to the outside and tucked the front end in dirt/sand/gravel/debris while maybe applying front brake.
'STUKA, THAT'S MY OPINION : DEBRIS UNDER FRONT WHEEL, I THINK HE HAD NO TIME TO OPERATE THE FRONT BRAKE (INFACT HE FALLS RIGHT). TWO YEARS AGO I HADE JUST THE SAME PROBLEM ON NAPLES HIGHWAY....(DIESEL FUEL UNDER MY WHEELS /LETF BY A TRUCK..)NO BRAKES, NO TIME TO REALIZE WHAT WAS HAPPENING, I WAS FLYING WITHOUT MY VFR UNDER MY BACK... WELL, I WAS LUCKY AND I CAN TELL THIS STORY. aNYWAY, LAMPS TO ALL VFR OWNERS.
I'm wondering how experienced the rider was, because it almost looked like the guy was afraid to commit to the lean angle of the turn. So when he realized he wasn't going to make the turn he grabed the brakes too hard.
His entry point was too near the cantre of the road and as he went through the corner he began to ride wide. Not enough counter steer to make the turn so he ran onto the dirty part of the road and the front end washed out. Just my opinion of course but I could be talking rubbish?
If you watch the road closely right behind the lead bike there is no debris visible in the road. Could still be some sand or small gravel though. He was off line, and the only thing I can figure is he saw the edge coming up and got on the brakes too hard. Doesn't make much sense though.
Looks odd, be nice to enlarge and slow it down. his front end does dive a bit as it skid sout leading me to think he breaked. But it did not dive hard enough for that to be the only thing.
If he got on the brakes... wouldn't he have high sided it? I am not an experienced rider by any means and I think that the more you experienced riders critique the footage, the more we can learn.
Well Friction is a 2 part force. 1.Resistance to Momvement between 2 surfaces already moving and 2.Resistence to movment between 2 surfaces starting to move. It takes more force to start sliding than keep sliding. This is why threashhold breaking works beter than smashing the breaks in a car and skidding, because once you start you keep skidding. Now on a bike if the wheel locks up it will typically skid, if the force aplied to the wheel during the skid is not great enough to flip the bike for a highside the suden loss of force 2 will cause the wheel to skid out. Still looks odd as it apears it did not take much force ot break the tire out into the skid indicating a break and a slippy area.
No, hitting the brakes does not mean a high side. Low siding/Front end tuck (as he did) is much more common on the street. The front end can easy tuck-in with too much front brake on a corner. Highsiding usually happens more so with the rear end breaking loose (sliding) usually from too much throttle, brake, hitting a slick, and having it quickly regain traction, and toss the rider. Figure your tire traction as a pie chat. So much is available for grip, cornering, and braking. If you are using 80% for cornering grip, and you hit the front brakes while leaned over, it is not hard to exceed 100% of your limit and have the front end wash out on you. I still think he hit sand on the road. Sand is hard to see in a picture, and it will take you down quicker than shit!
looks like he is barely leaning the bike on the turn when the front goes. seems he was drifting towards the outside of the turn and realized he was running out of room to turn... slam on the brakes... front locks and down he went. just guessing here. :unsure:
There seems to be a pullout for cars on the side of the road. I can only imagine as the cars have been pulling out they have been spinning out gravel everywhere. The rider was fairly close to the edge of the road and looks like he hit ice (gravel). I think...
This happened to me last year. Screaming around a track on sunday and casual ride on weds. 60mph casual turn flat, asphalt colored rocks from a landscape truck. Didn't touch the Brakes, the bike just left me, helmet and knee first. Cracked a vertibrea and need a hip replacement. I think the tires were a little over inflatted when we took the track tires off. Bad deal. First off track wreck ive had in 25 plus years. You never know. And to all that think you can control your crash destiny :bs:
quite interesting to watch, and i have 4 points to offer. The bike seems to be on line as it approaches the turn thens gets sucked to the outside of the turn- understeer, which may indicate braking as from that point its off line and quite upright. the front wheel deflects hard left at moment of crash, indicating to me front end wash out. so perhaps a combination of errors joining together here. the last piece of the puzzle is the dirt road, which as jason pointed out has almost certainly spewed debris all over the out side of the corner. i also note that the camera is pointed rearward to film this rider which may indicate an experienced rider taking some training video for a newbie to give some instructional points. for those familiar with RAMs(risk assessment management strategy) an accident is usually a series of events linked together to form an 'event'. no one link on its own is enough to cause a problem but linked together you get one of these... anyway a great conspiracy theory!
Four likely causes 1. Inexperiance 2. Debri 3. His approuch line 4. Road Pilot tyres Tryes aside (can't you tell I hate Chlins :bs: ) R.T. said it with the RAMs, & most accidents with bikes envolves multiple things done wrong. 90% of riding is mental & 10% is physical, so as I alway's say "Let your mind slide, so will your bike " !
One of my MSF instructors compared traction to a checking account, something along the lines of "Traction is like a money in your checking account, you can come close to emptying your account completely and you'll go without penalty, but as soon as you're overdrawn, that's IT... and for all you smartasses out there; Overdraft protection doesn't exist for traction accounts." EDIT: Oh and I'm going to just throw this out there because it hasn't been mentioned yet, the bike in the video may have had brand new tires (Thinking of Ignorant Bystander's thread).
Strange accident. Rider was very lucky not to have the bike come back and hit him. But it does appear he/she leans to the left to start the corner. The cam bike is hardly moving around, even when they're constant throttle entering the corner (can one assume they have reached the corner from a cruising pace, rather than quickly?) Just seems like the corner would require very little braking from the speed they were doing, and also in relation to the distance between them. The audio may or may not be in sync also. Lots of variables, lots of probables... has anyone tried to contact the video maker and find out? In the mean time... I'll suggest mechanical failure, and hope that they are ok.
My take on it would be that the rider who went down was not riding confidently into the corner (their line was all wrong for the speed of the bike), could see he/she was running wide and panicked. Then they did what probably most of us have done at least once in our riding career and grabbed for the front brake. At that angle and with a sharp pull on the front brake lever..... Just hope they didnt get badly injured.
I agree with Stuka here. If you think about it as a pie chat, it really makes more sense. :tongue: And if you think about how quickly a shit will take you down, that means sand is lightening fast. :wedgie:
