Jetting and Needle Questions.....

Hello fellow VFR's. I picked up an 86 VFR700 last year. Rode it a bit and then had an issue with the clutch slave cylinder so I parked it for a good long time. Lots of stuff going on in life and never put the Stabil to it so the carbs got pretty gummed up over the down time.
Took the carbs off and removed float bowls, jets, slides, etc...yes, kept them labelled and all parts will be put back into their original carbs.
Good or bad, I have read all the debates, I ordered a stage 1 dyno jet kit. For those who want to tear into me for getting the kit, please move on to another thread. I am asking for help, not criticism.
The kit arrived yesterday. After all the reading, I was going to opt not to drill the lift holes for the slides, just try to figure out a good combination of settings without drilling. It was at this point that I took the needles out of the slides to find they were not the nail head type, but adjustable. I took a look at the lift holes for the slides and they had already been drilled out. Obviously someone else had worked on the carbs over the lifetime of the '86 I have. Looking at the needle settings that came out of the bike, there was one washer on top and the clip was in the third groove.
At this point I looked over the instructions for the dyno kit and saw it had information on Stage 3 kits there too. The Stage 1 kit suggests putting the clip in the second groove, but the stage 3 kits uses the third groove. I began to wonder if the bike already has a Stage 3 kit in it. More information on the bike is required at this point....
My 86 is a tired looking viffer for sure. The odometer shows around 35K, but who really knows. Plastics are rough and it has seen its fair share of being on its side. It has a full header/pipe from Yosh. It is fairly loud, so I am assuming there is not much restriction in the flow of exhaust. More information about me the rider. I fell in love with the 86 VFR the moment they hit the showroom floors. I have ridden motorcycles all my life, road raced back in the early 90's, and now have a dirt bike, a goldwing, and the VFR. I am not an all out performance guy. The Stage 1 kit was my lazy way of not having to clean out the jets etc., not to gain power or speed. I am knocking on the half century age and just want a good running sport bike to enjoy the twisties and maybe the odd track day.
Back to the carbs..... The next thing I did was find out what jets were in the carbs to start with. The mains were 114's, the pilots(if I am wording that correctly) were 38, and the float needle seat shows 2.4. Hope you are with me so far, because it gets a bit weird from here. I was all set to install the needles that came with the Stage 1 kit I bought, when I thought it would be a good idea to compare what needles were coming out of the carbs. They do not look anything alike. The ones coming out of the carbs are shorter, thinner, and a much different profile that the Stage 1 needles. Stage 3 needles perhaps?
In my head, I am thinking the best option at this point is to install the stage 1 kit with the recommended jets and go from there. I go to put the Stage 1 needles in the slides and it will not slide through the hole all the way to the clip. There is a slight shoulder on the needle just before the grooves start and that shoulder is stopping the needle from seating to the base of the slide. The way I am reading the instructions I believe I am to put washers above the clip? Is that correct?
I will do my best to post a picture of the two different needles and would love to hear from anyone who has an idea of what kind of needle was in the carbs and if the new needles look correct.

 

issue solved

 

What was the verdict? Did the stage 1 fix it?

 

Dang, you dug this one up from a while ago.
With no feedback from anyone on the site, I dug a little deeper. As it turned out, the kit I received was labelled for the 86VFR, but the serial number on it was for some kind of Kawasaki. I sent it back and got the correct one for the bike. When I compared the two(stuff that was in the carbs when I bought it and the new kit), it already had the dyno kit installed.
The carbs were set up for stage 3 for the most part. The exhaust is very high flow and it has the aftermarket K&N air filter. I looked at trying to go back to the stock set up, but I was trying to keep the bike on a budget at the same time. With all that in mind, I just went ahead and put the new jets in(cleaned the old ones after the fact and have them set aside), cleaned the air filter, and set the carbs up according to some of the posts here on the site. It has run like a charm since.
I flick the choke lever and hit the starter and it fires up right away every time. No throttle needed at all. I warm it up with the choke, flick it off and away I go.
I honestly have no idea how the power compares to any other 86 700, and I really don't care. I get about 45mpg all day long.
Are other bikes having a hard time with the dyno kit? Sounds like it, but mine has been great since. It likely runs on the rich side, but it never bogs or acts up at all. I know that my buddy is not a fan of riding behind me, no smoke, but the exhaust fumes are relatively strong. Well, it probably has near 50k on it now, can't blame the old girl.
I have since picked up an 87 VFR700(blue/grey) that was parked for 15 years. I just re did the carbs on it and will install some fuel line soon and see if it has any life in it. Picked it up in a 3 bike package with two 83(one 700, the other 750cc) interceptors. All three bikes whole, but all have sat at least 15 years. Once done the 87, I am hoping to build one of the 83's and use the other for parts.
In the mean time, I will keep putting miles on the 86. It is the most beautiful bike every made in my eyes.
Thanks for your interest.

 

I was searching for pics of needles and ran across this post. I also have ones like on the right side in your picture.

So when you recieved your proper Dynojet stage 1 kit, did the needles look the same as you had before?

I was trying to find out if my needles were a Dynojet stage 1 or maybe 3. Here's mine.



Strangely enough, my carb had stock looking jets. 38 and 118. Maybe someone installed the Dynojet kit along with drilling a bunch of holes in the airbox lid and it didn't work so well so they covered the holes and put the old jets back in, but left the Dynojet needles?

You know, I might have Dynojet 118 main jets. I need to look for the K stamped in them. Keihin jets are numbered wierd. They use a combo of hole size plus flow rate. So a Keihin man jet 118 may have a hole that's 1.12mm-1.14mm in size combined with a taper on either side.

Dynojet does actual hole sizes. Their 118 jet should have an actual 1.18mm hole in it.

It kinda sucks dealing with old bikes with no history of what has been changed.

I like my 86 as well. The stock suspension kinda sucks, though. I had Jamie Daugherty redo the back shock to make it ride smoother and soak up bumps better. I also did a front end swap and that was a big improvement. Now I'm really liking these bikes. I may get a faster bike, but I don't plan on selling this one.

 

Stock needles have a gradual taper while kit needles are noticeably stepped. Exact tuning for your bike/altitude/temperature needs alot of experimentation on the road or a couple hours on a proper dyno with A/F readings.

 

Someone should put together a picture array of all the different needles so we can identify what jet kit has been installed.