anyone herd of using hho gas (water)

using water electrolysis you can separate the hydrogen and oxygen in water molecules. you can then put this HHO gas into your engine and possibly run an internal combustion engine using water as the fuel rather than oil based gasoline. has anyone heard of it?
www.waterpoweredcar.com

i met a guy from church that was acquainted with a guy who was friends with steve meyer who created a device that makes this work. steve was murdered in 1998 and his equipment stolen.



what do you think

 

Too bad that Hydrogen is an extrememly flammable gas and is not particularly nice to the insides of moden fuel-combusting engines.

A "hho conversion" would be interesting, bu I think that a Hydrogen vehicle would need to be built from the ground up.

Plus since big oil has the U.S. Government and the Automakers in their back pocket, it will never happen, until we run out of oil in the ground.

 

I think you are confused with Egas and biodesil. this is made out of certain plants like corn and beans.

HHO gas is actually hydrogen pulled from water. and you are right, it is very explosive, this is the reason that it needs to be created as needed on the vehicle and not pulled from a bottle source. you would store water then convert to hydrogen and oxygen, rather than having a tank full of hydrogen

 

Actually it was a reply to both. ill be more specific as to what i was thinking. I haven't seen anything at all on tv about using hydrogen for a fuel. everything that is being done is for turning corn into biodesil or Egas. the college here actually uses bio desil for their busses. this is a great and much cheaper way to travel, however it is still expensive in comparison to hydrogen (HHO gas). you are definatly right about it not working carying it in a gas form. in fact it would be quite dangerous. but, if you can carry it in liquid water form there are several benefits, one its very stable, water will not explode, also when converted to a gasous form, you get pure oxygen with it which makes the proccess even better. this is what isent publisihed. at least in my neck of the woods it isent. which is weird since here in michigan is where the inventor that created a system for doing it lives.

its also great because it works with gasoline engines not desil, which is what the majority of americans drive.

 

On a side note - I just posted a reply to your charging system issue.

Anyways, you are correct, water is very non-volatile. However, it takes tremendous amounts of electricity to separate the two hydrogen atoms from oxygen atom. Where is this electricity coming from?

Once it's separated, what do you do with the pure oxygen? That is ALSO extrememly explosive, ans just releasing it into the atmosphere is not really feasible, especially with a hot engine making 1,000's of explosions nearby, not to mention the electrical current running through the water separator. Our atmosphere is only about 21% oxygen. Any less and we'd all suffocate, any more and the planet would be a raging inferno.

It also brings up the question of hydrogen storage again. How will you separate the two gases once the atoms are split, and how would it be stored? You would need a dedicated hydrogen tank, and as Stuka said above, it would evaporate faster than you could use it up.

In reply to Stuka's point about bio fuels - GM's and our government's push to get ethanol as a viable fuel source is going to go belly up very shortly. E85 and pure ethanol as fuel sources are just not sustainable. And GM's "Hybrids" are pathetic at best. Silly 2-Mode hybrid systems that are hare-brained and harldy do anything for fuel economy. The Yukon/Tahoe hybrid is the most rediculous vehicle to hit the street in decades. Who gives a crap about a 10% fuel economy increase when you're going from 18 to 20 mpg? You are right - If it was not for Toyota and Honda being so forward-thinking about Hybrid vehicles, GM/big 3 would not even have any.

 

The oxygen goes into the engine with the hydrogen. It does take lots of energy to do it so you have to create a very very very efficient system. also pure water will not do it. you have to ad an acidic base to make the process faster. salt will work, better yet is something like KOH. without the base it will not happen. it literally makes it 1000 or so times more efficient.

Most people to do this do it for an additive to gas to improve gas mileage. it is possible to make it run completely on it however this will take extensive research and designing as it must be very very efficient.

 

you can make biodesil from pretty much anything that grows, obviously some things better than others. some people use old cooking oil from mc donalds. google fuel meister for that one. even alcohol straight from the bottle will run in a desil engine. which im sure all of you already know.

 

I've heard recently and researched a little online about biodiesel from algae. CNN had a report on the studies and implementation of the process on last week. According to everything I've read it almost sounds too good to be true. Attached is a link from a paper written in 2004 by a guy at New Hampshire U, who goes to great lengths to describe how great algae produced bio-diesel could be.

Corn has an extremely low gallon per acre per year yield of actual biodiesel. Discovery or TLC recently aired that switchgrass would produce around 1500 or more gallons per acre per year, but the article below states that per acre algae could produce as much as 10-15000 gallons per acre per year! Basically because algae is around 50% oil. Very interesting stuff.

The article also states some of the drawbacks to the Hydrogen boom (no pun intended). Let me know what you guys think. Maybe we should get back to developing a high hp diesel sport bike like that Austrian or New Zealand rig that circulated around the net a couple of years back, the StarTwin Thunderstar.

http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

 

i've seen alot of videos on this through you tube. one of the guys at work has plans on how to build one. the only problem with this system is that it cannot produce enough volume to run an engine on hydrogen alone. its only supplemental. i have not seen the plans yet, but he said the hardest part will be making the control unit because it creates an pulse width modulated (pwm) voltage to create the power. it supposedly can be more efficient with this rather than straight voltage application. im still skeptical but the scientific part is solid, its basic science. if we ever get it built i'll write something on it. i can tell you that it will never work on a motorcycle due to the size of all the components.

 

As the new guy, I probably shouldn't be argumentative, but oh well.

The fundamental flaw in all of this (as touched on above) is that you will ALWAYS use more power separating the hydrogen and oxygen than you will gain by burning it. Its a matter of the laws of physics, do not pass go, do not collect carbon credits.

Take into account the losses inherent in an internal combustion engine and you're WAY worse off than if you just ran the car on the electricity you used in the first place.

Its a nice idea, but completely unfeasible.

 

It doesent take much electricity for electrolysis to accure. 2.06 volts to be exact. if the electrical system of any vehicle loses 2.06 volts it will not have any effect on the performance of the vehicle at all.

 

Okay, bear with me...this stuff drives me insane. First off...wtf is HHO?? It doesn't exist. This isn't a jab at you...I know you've seen people who act like they know what they're talking about. I hear this BS on television and see it all over the net and it angers me that people are passing this off as reasonable when it is SOOO far from even possible that anyone with any physics or chemistry background will laugh at it. So here goes...


I'd imagine electrolysis could happen at even less than 2.06 volts...depends on amps as well surely?

But at 2.06 volts you're not even making enough hydrogen to run a generator that will make 2.06 volts, even if you had a hypothetical super-generator that was 100% efficient. In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that energy in a system cannot be created or destroyed, only change form. What that means is that if all the systems that were designed for this hydrogen vehicle were 100% efficient, you're still using just as much power in electricity making the hydrogen as you gain by burning it. And that 100% efficiency is so far from reality that its not funny. Look up the efficiency of an internal combustion engine. Now figure how much you're losing. Now consider how much power you lose in heat from all the wiring, generators, etc. How much electrical resistance is in your system? Are you going to keep the hydrogen compressed? How much power will it take to compress it?

Okay...just to put a finer point on things, lets step the 2.06 volts up a bunch.

If we assume 14 volts at 20 amps (since I think thats around what a motorcycle charging system puts out) and we assume a 100% efficient transfer of electrical power to hydrogen (which is a ridiculous pipe dream), we can do a little math with Ohm's law, and get this:

Watts = Volts X Amps (ohm's law) --------> 14volts X 20amps = 280 watts.

So, the ENTIRE motorcycle electrical system is making 280 watts. Even if we apply all that energy to making hydrogen (at an impossible 100% efficiency), we get a minuscule amount of power.

1 horsepower = 746 watts...so even at 100% efficiency you're getting all of 0.375 horsepower, and thats if we don't fire spark plugs or light headlights or anything else.

The point is, water is a very stable molecule and it takes a vast amount of energy to make a meaningful amount of hydrogen from it, and you're going to lose huge amounts of energy in the conversion. Its impossible and ridiculous, and the EXACT same thing applies to electric cars powered off the grid...you're inevitably losing out in the conversion.



Anyway, this is a stupid-long post that probably won't change anyones mind...because people like Al Gore and the Smart Dude on youtube will keep spouting their crap.

 

^

That's what I was trying to get at in my second reply.

the only viable Hydrogen powered vehicles have an on-board compressed Hydrogen cell, and do not rely on some sort of "water-splitter" to gain Hydrogen.

Maybe in Star Trek land, but not on this planet. At least not now. Where'd I put my Dilithium crystals and phase inducers???:biggrin:

 

...who undoubtetly knew Kevin Bacon... :tongue:

 

I am actually at the exact same spot. with the one i have built i can watch the gas rise from off of the unit, but i do not believe that this unit is capable of fully running a larger engine. i might put in on my lawn mower soon, it should run that just fine.

it will take some good planing to make it work fully off of hydrogen

 

who is Kevin Bacon?

 

water = Hydrogen Hydrogen Oxygen, H2O
HHO fuel = Hydrogen Hydrogen Oxygen, from H2O