DOT & Snell (American) helmet testing standards

This is why I purchased a Shark RSR2 and will never purchase a Snell approved helmet again. ECE 22 is (I believe the correct rating) a much better test standard for the real world.

keith

 

I remember the 2005 article and being very intrigued by their findings. I even tried on one of those Z1R (or whatever it was) helmets. However the fit was terrible on me and it felt kind of cheesy overall.

I thought their testing process in the article was very good, and the response from Snell sounded like back pedaling to me--as if the article really did catch them with their pants down.

I'm all for the advancement of safety through testing and independent entities like Snell, however they need to be challenged every now and then to make sure all is well.

 

First I will say I haven't read the article you refer to. However, I do tend to pay attention to what is happening in the helmet world as I only have one head. I know there are differences between the testing standards and as I understand it the European Standard is the most comprehensive and probably the best. Another however, helmets that comply with any of the main standards offer excellent protection. I believe that having the correct fit is more important than the standard used to test it. Buy a helmet which fits correctly and is tested by one of the main agencies and all is good. Also don't let the helmet get too old. The shock absorbing material especially, but also the shell, breaks down over time. The standard recommendation is to replace the helmet after five years. As a suggestion when a helmet gets to five years cut the straps so no one can use it by mistake. A final thought if the helmet gets banged, dropped on a hard surface etc. replace it emediately. It could have been significantly weakened and you just can't tell.

 

Mommy? I don't wanna get up right now... Do I have school today? I don't wanna learn about helmets... But mom!... ok, ok, I'm getting up.

It's saddens me to think that a $ is getting in the way of safety. But you know it is. The power that a mighty dollar has is getting stronger and stronger as day's go by. Basically all we have are the regulatory bodies that govern everything from helmets to food to vehicle safety to keep us safe. Hell, they will put lead in kids toys unless someone says DON'T. I do think it's really important that we as the consumers stay on top of these regulatory bodies and kick their a$$ when needed. If in fact MC made an impact re SNELL testing than kudos to them. Someone should hit up the rest.

Can I go back to sleep now?

:baby: :sleep:

 

:first: Derstuka for president!!!! you got my vote.:usa2:

 

What's vivarin? and can one spread peanut butter on it?

 

Vivarin is an over the counter pharmaceutical product guaranteed to make you extremely nauseous, give you a splitting headache, make your mouth dry as a bone, and generally make you feel like you've been on a two day bender, all while utterly failing to do what it's advertised to do!

You can spread peanut butter on anything. However this is unlikely to suppress Vivarin's hangover simulating power. I would suggest saving the peanut butter for more noble purposes, like making celery edible and torturing cats.

 

Snell

Welcome to the real world, Snell. BTW, I'm sure you're aware that Snell ONLY tests those helmets submitted (read, paid for) to them, and did not approve any flip front helmets because no one would pay them to test them to their unreal tests.

That having been said, this is what we in the industrial world call ISO conformance.

Audit the process and write down every step for accuracy.
Write down the entire process.
Train to the written spec.
Audit the process for adherence to the written spec.
And FINALLY, audit the specs for real world performance.

It doesn't matter if you write down gobblegook, it it is real, accurate and repeatable.

Snell's standards were unreal, inaccurate, and worst, paid for.

You want to set standards, be impartial, but mostly, be correct.

We're talking about protecting the life and limb of a human being. What kills? Impact transmitted to the brain in a head impact! So, the helmet that does the best job of reducing the total energy transmitted is best, based on real world testing, based on thousands and thousands of case files of real world accidents. Ask the doctors, what happened in each case and sets OBJECTIVE levels.

Stepping down from the high horse. Sorry, the Safety Engineer in me gets a little uppity at times. Too late, not enough riding lately.

Larry
VFRrider

 

SafetyPro10 (a.k.a. Larry)- So what is a consumer to look for in a helmet? Is DOT accreditation sufficient to guarantee a sufficiently safe helmet?

 

Every snell approved helmet is also DOT approved. The main problem for me is that any $100+- dollar helmet isnt comfortable enough to wear, especially after owning Shoei's and Arai's.

 

I know after that article came out I went and bought a Schuberth helmet. Big bucks, but met the European standard which after reading the article, I was convinced was better than Snell for real world. The cheap helmet that they also rated very high was just to cheap in its fit and finish for me.

A lot of the article dealt with different head sizes/weights, but also whether it was better to have a firmer foam that would be better in a higher impact but in a slow speed impact transmit more of the force to your noggin. Or if it was better to use to use a softer foam that would be better in a slower speed impact and transmit less energy to your noggin, but in a higher speed impact might not offer enough energy absorbtion. While Snell testing required a firmer foam for higher impacts some of the people interviewed and the studies cited argued that it was safer to worry about the lower speed impact, because that what was motorcyclists were experiencing in the real world. That even in a accident at speed, you rarely hit an object with the full force that you are traveling. Rather the force transmited to your head is not likely to be the force of traveling forward at 70 MPH, but more likely to be the force of falling from your bike at say 4 feet high. A much smaller impact. That rarely in an accident to we hit an object with our heads, at the speed at which we are traveling.
That while the DOT and Snell standard used theory to decide what the standards should be, and then tested to those standards; the European standards were developed as the result of a comprehensive study of real world motorcycle traffic accidents. And the results of those accidents. So for now, that European standard is much more important than Snell to me, or the DOT one. Unfortunately, Schuberth pulled out of the US market a while after that testing showed it as one of the best helmets out there.

 

Helmets

All I know is, at least from this vantage point, that at a minimum a good helmet must be DOT rated. Snell is good, but not all comprehending. ECE rated (European Safety) appears a little more cutting edge. But a helmet meeting DOT is a good start.

I know a lot of people swear by full face only. Yes, they are good, but the new flip face ones are good, too. I wear a HJC Symax. IF Snell had tested it, it would have passed their test (Done is Motorcyclists mag test).

Pays your money, takes your choices.

But the apparent paramount concern is fit. There are supposedly several different shape heads and helmets, so trying on each and every one you like is the first thing. And the sizes varies, also. I liked the new Shoei Multitech. I normally wear a large, but a mdeium in that helmet fit fine. Go figure.

One, find a helmet you like (I like light colored ones due to the heat in Texas and visibility). Try them all on and make sure they fit securely and feel good all over. Shake your head, etc. Pay for it and take it home or mail order one cheaper and wait. RIDE.

Larry

 

I agree. Having ridden with Arai for 30 years (except for one minor daliance with a noisy Simpson model 32) I never thought I would buy any other brand.

My Shark is safer (ie does NOT comply with Snell), has a better fit, a far superior visor and visor system, and quieter.

All of this with a removable liner...

 

No SNELLs for me! This month's MC article made them out to be real assholes.

 

I remember reading this original article when it came out in '05. I've been a loyal Motorcyclist subscriber for as long as I can remember. Takes nuts - not only did they piss off Snell, but they lost some high-end advertisers in the process as well. I'd love to see more technical comparisons like this; tires would be a great place to start....

 

I thought Snell and DOT were just stickers. They mean something? lol