How many of you would buy a VFR 1000

Sometimes new and supposedly superior technology just isn't applied or used correctly. Speaking of "drive-by-wire" controls, my former '06 Acura TSX had a drive-by-wire throttle and it was pretty bad (with the 6 speed). The latency was really obvious to me. It felt like the engine was half a step behind what my right foot did--it made shifting smoothly a real challenge and throttle modulation in mid-corner very tricky.

I can't count how many times I went on a rant about running a good old fashioned cable from the right pedal to the throttle body.

There are some bits of technology I love, but others I can do without.

VTEC is a brilliant idea on this bike. Dyno charts prove it boosts power and torque across the RPM range, all while using the same size engine and requiring just 86+ octane fuel. It was cutting-edge clean too when it was first introduced. That's awesome! It's ultra simple--far simpler than the obscenely reliable system on Honda cars! I have a lot of respect for the engineers that developed it.

It's not continuously variable though--there is a discernible step when it engages. Maintenance costs aside, I believe that is really the only legitimate gripe that VTEC haters have--anything else is just hatred of technology or change in general, projected onto VTEC with flimsy arguments about loss of control, restricted performance, etc.

Who complains about having 4 valves per cylinder instead of 2? I bet the debates back in the day were nauseating.

Who complains about having fuel injection instead of carbs? I'm just old enough to remember some of those debates!

Variable valve technology is absolutely no different than the former examples. It's been around for a while and growing in popularity like crazy--just like 4 valves per cylinder and fuel injection were at one time.

In the not-so-distant future, I think my generation's debate is going to be around the use of "drive-by-wire" technology. Just like how some of you go on and on about your cam gears, I'll be going on and on about my damn throttle cable. :biggrin:

 

NorcalBoy,
FWIW, I am not an engineer, I am a molecular biologist with a background in human molecular genetics. I'm also a Six Sigma Black Belt, and I help to teach a Design for Six Sigma course where I work. My DFSS background provides me with some background around what constitutes best practices for robust design (robust from the engineering perspective), and while Honda in general really is exemplary at robust design, sometimes I think they get too caught up in their own engineering prowess.

Moreover, I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not going to elaborate any further on V-tec other than to say it costs notably more at each service interval to perform a valve adjustment than on a non-Vtec motor. This is due to the additional effort, where effort=time+steps. Agree that the number of service intervals over the life of the bike would be the same. But as I've said before, v-tec wasn't really my point; it was used as an example of how sometimes Honda goes down unnecessarily complex design paths to fulfill their engineering requirements.

Junkionfet: Also agree with you on your comments overall, and specifically on the drive by wire throttle on my '07 TSX; I am not crazy about it either and wondered the same thing; why couldn't Honda just use a throttle cable? Other than that, I love the car; it's superb overall and the best car I've ever owned.

As for this thread, yes, I would buy a 1000cc VFR; but I would be more inclined to do so if it had gear-driven cams than V-tec. Actually, I would prefer that it was a 900 than a 1000 to keep insurance rates manageable. Or as one of the posters said, keep it at the same displacement and give it performance gains at parity with the development they've done on the CBRs.

That said, if all I could buy was a 6th or 7th gen VFR as opposed to no VFR, I would still buy a VFR. I think the bikes are fantastic any way you slice it.

 

Anyone on 2 wheels is thumbs up in my book. If the bike is any V-4 Honda I feel even more strongly in favor :biggrin: so perhaps I can further muddy the waters with additional explanantion...I have ridden a few 6th gen VFRs and love the bikes for their advances in handling and I personally like the appearance of the 6th gen.

I absolutely LOVE the gear driven cams of every V-4 sport bike has Honda has produced since 1986. Possibly owning several of these in addition to a 1983 VF750F increases my Nostalgia for the good old days.

That being said, if a new design is more efficient, count me in. As far as that relates to Vtec in it's 6th gen VFR iteration, where is the greater efficiency?

There is no Ralph Naderesque unsafe at transition revs on the 6th gen. There is no great surge of additional power when opening the eight dormant valves at transition.

There is added weight (for the record I am also not a fan of the LBS) and added complexity which may or may not have been forthcoming with Euro 3 mandated emissions reductions of both exhaust and noise. Other manufacturers have solved the Euro 3 problems without resorting to Vtec. I am pretty sure that the GSXR750 currently has better power to weight than a 781cc VFR and is still Euro 3 compliant.

So my take (and I am seldom right but never uncertain) is that the additional power and sex appeal of Vtec is marketing hype to cover the loss of the whine (which had to go to make it easier to meet noise requirements) and this hype is the main reason for the backlash against the 6th gen by longtime VF/VFR owners. And if you look Vtec haters look closely you will see that no one who has never owned a gear driven cam V-4 cares about Vtec. Most can't even discern the difference.

The smoke and mirrors of greater efficiencies are not born out by the one tooth lower counter sprocket and reduced fuel range realities of actual performance.

When we were asking for better suspension components the update to what nearly every motorcycle publication worldwide was proclaiming as the best motorcycle ever produced was....? Vtec?

So here we are today. A great bike that has chain driven cams like almost every other bike on the planet....crappy right side up forks that are valved and sprung for 150 lb Japanese motorcycle cops who never ride two up....cool undertail exhaust...hard bags available (finally)....ABS available (some like it - at least it is not mandatory)...Linked Brakes (no choice here)...and occassional BNG (bold new graphics).

So yes, I would lay down my hard earned money for a VFR-1000 that returned to the roots of the marque. If this bike is more sporting than the current 6th gen offering then I would be among the first to place a deposit.

It does not have to have gear driven cams but if it is indeed more sporting it will most likely not have Vtec, will have radial brakes (not linked), will have USD forks, and be more CBR like in riding position. :blah:

Vee Four Racer used to mean something a little less than it does today. The Cross Beam Racer is not similar in design to the current MotoGP offering and a welcome addition would be a true VFR or even RCV.

Keep the current 6th gen also (Kawasaki kept the Concours for 20 years before updating it) and let the market understand what we already know. V-4s are great!

The side effect of more squids on V-4 sport bikes will be more older guys on Sport Touring V-4s later.

And the red herring argument of cars adopting advanced technologies has no bearing until the unwashed masses have access to cars with power to weight ratios that enable them to all achieve 50 mpg when slabbing to the twisty roads and 0-60 times in the mid 2 second range.

The VFR used to be their technological tour de force and was a logical choice for LBS and Vtec considering the 25 year history of this platform but they have a much better platform for these experiments now. Honda can and should experiment with Vtec on bikes as well as their forthcoming cylinder deactivation on the ST-1300.

While NorcalBoy had a great point about the type of bike we will be able to buy new in the future being more difficult to service and less raw, it simply means that I wont make the mistake of selling any of my current bikes as I did with my past bikes.:wink:

I agree that the TSX may well be perfect, except for the front whell drive part. :tongue:

Ok now everybody flame on while i go look for some nomex undies.

Hopefully it will be warmer tomorrow and you guys wont be subjected to the mad ravings of an old guy (not a Vtec hater just another point of view).

 

Cornercarver, I give it up to you man, that was a sweet post. I was hoping my earlier post would take this thread to a different place with respect to factual common sense. Your bipartisan vision is refreshing. Good on 'Ya! Now that's doin' it how it's supposed to be done.:thumb:

 

:clap2: I have to agree thanks for a good post cornercarver...:clap2:

would i buy a vfr 1000? only if my current ride was no longer usable
i think honda got it right with customers they were after with current vfr. its nice to have a quiet layed back ride but still able to bounce around all most all moving cages under 7k rpm and a ride with more personality over 7000rpm. that said i know some bikes are like that with out vtec but not to the same degree. not into going back to a liter bike and wondering when the back tire might break loose especially on wet roads with a little to much twist of the wrist.
so i guess im with norcal boy, it would have to have Vtec, wouldn't that piss every one off if honda did thatound:
in the end we all have the v4 in common and that sets us apart from all those run of the mill inliners we sound different well mannered and bullet proof V-4
ALL THE WAY :first:

 

I didn't realize that all posts had to be fact-based; I thought this forum was true to the definition of a forum, where opinions, reflection, and hypothesis were able to be discussed, as well.

 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, Man can't ya see I'm trying to take a nap?

 

Absolutely true. I think everyone will agree that regardless of what Gen they have, they love the Interceptor. The only squabbles come from differences between the Generations. That should not make us lose sight of what this bike is all about and why we love it.

 

Sorry, My Bad!

 

Don't take things too seriously. They're just messing with you. Your opinions count as much as anyone else's. Without opposing views, there would be no debate and we wouldn't have these VTEC threads to get us through the winter!!!

 

Oh, I don't....tongue was firmly in cheek when I posted that. I should have used this emoticon as well: :tongue:

But, ssshhh!!! NorCalBoy's tryin' to take a nap! :biggrin:

 

Isn't this fun boys

 

Thanks man for keeping it down PC, LOL! I'm up now and watching the Anaheim Supercross on SPEED :biggrin: BTW PC, what ever happended with your suspension stuff? You made an appointment yet to get down to see Mr. Kyle?.... Hold on a second my almost uncontrollable surge of VTEC power is about to kick in and I must maintain my concentration, ok it's cool now, I obviously haven't made it down that way either due to the weather being so rotten lately in the Bay Area. You know what I'm talkin' about. Should be good to go by the end of next week though. Gotta get out to test my new radar detector setup........... Now back to the thread subject, LOL!

 

LOL!
Dan wrote me an email today, and I will be calling him to order an Ohlins for the rear on Monday, and scheduling a Saturday appt. to get the forks redone. I am hoping I can get them done the weekend after next. I would like to ride the bike down there, but Dan says he would prefer I just brought him the bare forks for revalving. If I do bring the bike, he says we can install the shock while we are down there. That would be ideal, but I will have to arrange with my buddy Brian to drive my tools and stand down there so we can pull the forks once we arrive and give them to Dan. Brian wants to come down anyway with his bike, as he just bought some Ohlins R&T forks for his Ducati Monster S4, and wants Dan to check out the forks and his set-up. And, of course, the weather may play a factor, as you know....you're probably getting as pounded up there in Santa Rosa as I am down here in Castro Valley. I heard thunder today, or wait, maybe it was a wave of VTEC power! :laser: :behindsofa:

:biggrin: LOL!

I will keep you posted on the progress on il suspesione.

Ciao,
PC

 

Too funny! I'm done with the whole VTEC argument, I'm burned out on it completely. To each his own. Keep me posted on what model of shock you order. I already have my tax return spent, in my mind anyway, on an Ohlins here in the next couple of months. I can't remember the model number right off hand :redface: I was just at the Race Tech website speching some parts for an upgrade I'm planning, I figure $600.00 for the parts and another $300.00 to $400.00 for the install. It all adds up way too quick man. It really is a shame that the Blue Fin is closed down.....

 

Tell me about it, I still have to order an Aerostitch!

The shock for the '99 VFR is an HO801, from what I remember Dan telling me. The shock for your bike is an HO203.

 

Oh crap!, I forgot the Roadcrafter, Size 42S . I'm trying to get a deal set up with David Silver Spares in the UK to buy the panniers for my '06 this week so there goes even more! One of these friggin' days I'm gonna have to ride this thing instead of just playing with it..........damn weather!

 

Vfr 1000

Well, I certainly would as long as it had all the characteristics as my VFR, with the added bonus of extra power and torque. However, didn't Honda make a VF1000 interceptor? They didn't exactly sell a shedload of these so this may be why Honda stick to the smaller engine size.

 

In 1983 & 1984 they made a VF1000F and in 1985 & 1986 they made a VF1000R. I've ridden a 1986 VF1000R a few times and my initial thoughts are the same as the prevailing opinions that you see out there. It is underpowered and very, very heavy. It was actually inferior to the 1986 VFR750F (which I own). That is one of the reasons why sales for the bike flopped. If Honda was to make a VFR1000 today, I think that things would be completely different. However, even though the 1986 VF1000R is a pig, I'm still looking for one to complete my 1986 collection.

 

If I remember correctly, the VF1000R weighed 638 pounds.