A Big Fear!

+1...Yup. And as a subset of intersection accidents, how many cagers who are without question inattentive drivers didn't see the motorcyclist because he came through the intersection above the speed limit? I have seen a lot of sport bike riders fly through intersections. There is a good vid of one such crash on the web some place.
George
P.S. As a general rule...for me...I downshift and ride 10 under the speed limit though all busy intersections. I try to make eye contact...no guarantee either as many know. I sometimes flash my uber bright HID headlight and I ride through on the left hand side of my lane or closest to the car that may turn in front of me. Why? Because if the jacka$$ does turn in front of me, I will dodge him on the inside and not be taken out by him on the outside. Those are my survival guidelines anyway...YMMV.

 

You must always ride with the mindset that everyone is out to kill you with their "cages" (because they ARE), wear a quality skid-lid and clothing that offers protection. Do your very best, live right and be prepared to have your ticket punched when your name is called. Worked for me for 30+ years.

 

How DARE YOU!

My best friend was killed by an errant motorist (no, not a story, an all-too-tragic actual occurence) and you somehow have the unmitigated insolence to insult me?
WTF?

Idiot - you know not of which you speak.
My "music" comment was a sarcastic reference to another VFRW thread, and in no way suggested that my friend was listening to music at the time he was struck.

*Edited for PC & respect for Admin.

 

When I ride I view everyone with one simple rule: They are idiots, all idiots, ordained by God to do the stupidous thing possible in regards to my personal safety. With this rule, I've been able to accurately anticipate and evade God only knows how many dumbasses...

 

What a pity, I thought I had come to a forum where stuff could be debated without the flaming and bad mouthing, seems I was wrong :yield:

 

I disagree. You have to pay attention and expect the unexpected ALL of the time, simple as that. Its pretty obvious, we're on two wheels, car drivers are not. They are distracted by having their friends or family chatting away to them, music playing... list goes on. This is why i don't listen to music while i ride. I think it's stupid and irresponsible, you should be concentrating on your riding, not your favourite tune. As an instructor i would never recommend doing it.

 

+ 1000 :hug: you have a way with words good sir, idiots could be transposed by something stronger in South Africa, (look who just got voted president of the ANC)

 

Here's the drill that I have taught to over 9,000 riders in California...

When approaching an intersection during the daytime and you identify a possible hazard (car coming towards you that "might" turn left in front of you) go into a defensive mode.

1. Go from low beam to high beam (daytime). At night a quick low-high-low should suffice. You don't want a blinded driver coming towards you, but you need to get their attention.

2. Cover both the front brake with your hand (I prefer two fingers, which I usually do most of the time anyway) and cover your rear brake with your foot.
Covering your brakes reduces the reaction time by approximately 1/4 of a second.

At 30 mph (an average intersection speed) you are traveling 44 feet per second and if you had to do an emergency stop your stopping distance, theoretically,
will be about 11 feet shorter than not covering both brakes.

3. Adjust your lane position to give maximum distance from the oncoming car.

4. Adjust your speed to allow you to swerve or stop if necessary. Remember, it is usually best, if necessary, to try to swerve first rather than brake first.

DO NOT COMBINE your emergency swerve and maximum braking....keep them separate.
Maximum braking means squeeze hard on the front brake and at the same time push down hard on the rear brake WITHOUT any skidding.
Practice, practice, practice in a vacant parking lot until it becomes instinctive and then practice some more.

Remember, even though you should be giving the oncoming car a lot of your attention, do not give all of your attention to that car because there may be
others coming from another direction (perhaps from the right).

If you find yourself getting into a lot of close calls you might want to analyze your riding habits to see if there is any room for improvement.
Learning to ride well should never end.

Bob
* Retired MSF Chief Instructor for 24 years (helped to create the California M/C program for the Highway Patrol).
* Expert witness in several motorcycle/car accident trials.
* 74 year old codger with 50 years of accident-free riding and very few close calls.
* 5 years racing 250 gp bikes with no accidents (probably rode too slow).

Ride safe and long guys and gals and Merry Christmas to all . . .

 

Bob...a couple of questions please. I subscribe to your well explained intersection coping skills but will ask a question of you and will also state something else worth mentioning. My question is...and perhaps we take the opposite tact here...you say ride as far away from the turning car as possible. Do you generally therefore recommend going through intersections on your right hand side of the lane? I opt for the opposite approach as I feel that the middle is a safer passage and if the driver starts to turn it is almost too late and the probability of being taken out is greater if traveling the right hand side of the lane versus the left. Please provide your further thoughts if you would based upon your considerable experience.

The other thing I will mention is how to avoid a crash which hasn't been talked about in this informative thread. How do you get a motorcycle to turn right now? Instinctively we lean our body. Not good enough or at least fast enough but what most riders do for example to avoid something hazardous in the road. Best way? Push hard on the side the handlebar in the direction of where you want to swerve. Countersteering collapses the motorcycle by creating an angle between fork and frame inducing the bike to turn right now to avoid an accident. This btw isn't instinctive. It can become so however by PRACTICE. BTW, you will default to your instinct in an emergency situation and why it is critical to teach yourself this skill. Next time you are out riding your Viffer play a game. Practice avoidance by pushing the handlebar. Pick a dark spot in the road and turn around it right now by pushing on the handlebar. This practice may save you in an intersection. Also, after you have developed this skill and in the future when you try to miss something in the road ask yourself if you have really learned this lesson. I find that I need to practice it more as I find myself leaning instead of countersteering for accident avoidance which frankly just isn't good enough.
Bob...please let me know your further thoughts on which part of the lane to ride through an intersection if you would.
George

 

George, good question...

1. In the intersection more space from the oncoming car is desirable, however,
if you are on a two lane road and there is a car at a stop sign on your right then it would be prudent to move to the center of the lane.
Remember, lane positioning is not written in stone.

Countersteering? Take a look here...

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9912_motorcycle_counter_steering/index.html

A very important thing in an emergency maneuver is your vision. You MUST look where you want to be, not at your possible crash point.

 

Good stuff. Thank you Bob,
Ride safe everybody.
George

 

All good stuff. However, I have a few comments

Some drivers may take the flicking of the headlight to mean "go ahead and turn" - so I don't do it.

Also, I ride with my high beam on during daylight hours because low beam just blends in with all the other cars with daytime driving lights.

(Originally, motorcycles were required to have their headlights on to distinguish themselves from the cars on the road. Now that most cars have daytime running lights, a low-beam headlight on a motorcycle just blends in. The simple solution is to run high-beam during the day)

A non-endorsed method I use when approaching an intersection with no cars around me and a car waiting to turn in front of me is to weave before I enter the intersection.

Why do I weave? I do it because the human brain is designed to see movement before color or shapes. The driver may think I'm crazy, but at least he sees me. I ensure I stop weaving before I enter the intersection because the driver could still turn in front of me and I need to be prepared to brake or swerve.

I also cover the brake and clutch, but also have a thumb poised above the horn button (aftermarket horn).

 

I read somewhere the most fatal or injeries on bikes come from a car turning left.

I believe this as when turning left the car looks up the road for cars, a single head light could look like a car far away, and also people gadge the speed based on what is normal.

Also when turning left the car has to look around the other left turning cars(oncoming) so riding to the right is preferable imo for city riding where you will face intersections.

Also riding in a predictable and car like manner helps, no rapid acceleration, excesive speed or rapid decels's.
also don't hide behind trucks, you won't be seen and since your small they may think it's clear behind the truck.

 

Good statements, couldn't agree more on them,
=Alert status on HIGH, ALL the time.
Music = destraction= slower reaction=:crutch:

music to my ears is a good purring motor, even on 1400 to 2400 mile riding weekends :biggrin:

 

I wish all cagers would watch this video...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=BBNyuf533Go&feature=related

 

We almost need those orange lights large trucks have.....think orange siren...
Or a night rider LED but brighter.

 

Bob
* Retired MSF Chief Instructor for 24 years (helped to create the California M/C program for the Highway Patrol).
* Expert witness in several motorcycle/car accident trials.
* 74 year old codger with 50 years of accident-free riding and very few close calls.
* 5 years racing 250 gp bikes with no accidents (probably rode too slow).

Ride safe and long guys and gals and Merry Christmas to all . . .[/QUOTE]


Bob:

I know we have had our differances in the past but I am hoping you will expand on something that has always bothered me and you seem to have the experiance.

You have had a very long motorcycle career. Why do you think you have not had a major accident?

The reason I ask is I have always been bothered by the line "There are two types of riders, those that have been down and those who will go down". At my first track day some riders were joking about "there are track riders that have been down and those who will go down again" with laughter to follow.

I don't know about you all in VFRW but crashing at triple diget speeds, or on the street, is not something I am trying to put on my resume. And I sure as hell don't think its funny.

David Hough talked about this attitude and he knew of riders his age that had been riding on machines of lesser technologies than today and they had very few or no accidents. So there must be something about attitude?

PorscheBob your thoughts please...

BZ

 

Bubba:

It's kind of hard to put my finger on any one thing that has kept me safe. I had the same safety record 8 years with the Marine Corps.

But, let me try. IMHO, at least for me, FOCUS is number one. Focus on your ride not the problems you have back at the office or at home.

Number two. I use what I call "aggressive vision". In other words, I scan 360 degrees (w/mirrors of course) often and I look and try to analyze
traffic dynamics as early as possible. This might be an old habit from car racing I did for 10 years with SCCA.
You have to use your vision like a fighter pilot!

Strange thing, in traffic I can sometimes predict what the car drivers are going to do several seconds before they do it.

Number three. Keep the high speed riding where it belongs...on the race track.

Number four. Ride into the largest open pockets in traffic. You always want as much distance from cars and trucks as possible.

Number five. Know the limits of your bike and your riding ability.

Hope this helps,

Santa

 

It's not usually like this, this forum for the most part has members who can handle debate on very mature level, I thinks lately it's a combination of winter and the moderators being on vacation who usually put out small flames before they become fires...

 

Thanks Bob! I appreciate you taking the time to answer.

I lived in the DC metro area for 6.5 years and I know what you mean by traffic prediction. Every place I have lived has its own unique traffic culture. On the beltway if you paid attention, you almost knew the person on the cell phone two cars up was going to suddenly change lanes with no signal by how they looked in their mirrors. But damn if they didn't suprise those around them

Merry Christmas back too Santa!

BZ