Looking for any cooling/electrical system upgrades

Hey all,
So, my '99 suddenly shut off on me in the middle of the road while I was riding. Luckily I had enough momentum to pull over onto the sidewalk (it was 11 at night so I didn't encounter a single pedestrian). I have an Antigravity ATX-12-HD battery, which has worked great thus far, but features a built in jump starter, so if your battery drops below 12V for a minute or 2, it goes into "sleep mode" so you have enough power to crank it with the jump start button. A good idea in practice, but my bike is not great at cooling, and the fan sucks a lot of power, so it kills the battery after an hour or two. My bike will get up to 239F when I'm riding. We have a lot of stop and go traffic in North Texas, so I need the bike to be able to handle that. Somehow, my cooling fan sucks up all the power in my battery. It did this before I upgraded my battery, and still does it now. This bike has had charging system issues since I bought it. I've replaced the R/R with a MOSFET from Roadster Cycle (and suggest you do too if you haven't) and the battery with a Li-Ion battery, but the stator is the only thing I haven't touched. I got a good deal on a new stator from Bikers Run, and will be throwing that in when it arrives. I have not a clue how the stator is doing, this bike seemed like it didn't get enough TLC from the previous owner so I wouldn't be surprised to see a blown stator. I ran tests in 'The Drill' and it seems like I'm getting good voltage, but it still seems like it's not putting out enough power, so I'm just gonna replace the stator.
Anyways, what other suggestions are there for upgrading the charging system and cooling system? I've heard of people putting VTR fans, which are more efficient, so I'm considering that. I've also heard of some people putting a second fan on the right rad, which makes sense since the right rad gets hot coolant first, then the left side. I'm also considering switching to distilled water and water wetter, as right now I'm running water wetter in 50/50. I don't really need antifreeze, since I live in NTX it doesn't get cold enough for coolant to freeze, and when it does the bike is in a heated garage. I'm running LED headlights and license plate lights, so I should be saving a little bit of power there. Are there any other (working) lights I could switch out for LEDs and save some power on? Another suggestion is a manual fan switch so I can choose when the fan comes on.

TL;DR- bike gets hot and cooling fan sucks power, charging system can't keep up

What do you guys think? What combination of cooling system mods should I do?

 

"it seems like I'm getting good voltage"

So... what voltage are you getting? A running fan on a properly working charging system will not drain the battery.

Replace your stator.

 

On a normal day it hovers around 13.3V, which is the fully charged voltage of the Li-Ion battery. The voltage of the battery was slowly dropping as the fan was on, until it got to 12.0, in which it shut off.

 

13.3 is not "good voltage". No decent guide or advice would have said that.

You need high 13 to low 14

Your charging system needs attention. I doubt it was even actually reaching 13.3 if you were discharging down to 12.0 that fast, fan or not.

 

Allow me to add some additional information- This is a lithium-ion battery. As a result of the battery's chemistry, the voltage range differs from that of a lead acid or AGM battery. When I was running AGM with my MOSFET and my stator, with whatever condition it was in, I would see around 14.4V around startup, but as the bike got hot this would drop.
Here's some additional info on the new Lithium Ion battery I'm currently using:

• 480 Cranking Amps
• 16 Amp Hours (PbEq)/ 8Ah (Actual)

I keep it plugged in when I'm not riding, and when the charger tells me the battery is fully charged, it reads 13.3V. It's worth noting that sometimes during the charging process, the battery spikes up to 14V, but soon lowers itself back down to 13.3. It's also worth noting that I got 41 miles in an hour and 48 of riding time before my battery went flat. The bike's temperature had been reading high in the minutes leading up to the bike shutting off. That was during city driving, but on the highway I was chilling at 180F-ish and reading 13.3V.

 

While I'm here, does anyone know how much power each system draws? I know that...

• 45W each headlight bulb (For lamps)
• 5W for each front turn signal, brake and tail light
• 21W for each rear turn signal
• 8W for the license plate lights
  I believe I read it's 3.1A for the fan, so assuming a voltage of 13.6 that's another 41W
  But I wonder how much the FI system and dashboard pull, among other things.

 

If you're running hiway speeds and getting 13.3, you got charging system issues. A properly charging VFR can be sitting with it's brake light on and fan running and not discharge the battery.

Good luck!! I'm out...

 

I just went through this 2-3 weeks ago. Charging voltage at the battery looked ok as long as the radiator fan wasn't in play. Stop and go riding left me with a dead battery from radiator fan usage.

Long story short... The stator was done. I replaced it. You need to do an AC voltage test of the stator on all three combinations of paired yellow wires. You should see around 18VAC at idle and 50VAC+ at 5,000 rpm and more. If you don't feel comfortable checking this, have a shop do it. It's high voltage AC

 

It sounds like you're throwing parts at it. As such, you'll likely do that forever...along with push it home a lot. Take the time to diagnose it. That info is available on both VFR forums.

 

Don't worry about any of this. Determine the operating condition of the stator, and next time do so before plugging up a brand new regulator rectifier.

 

Glad to know I'm not the only one...
I tested my stator voltages a few months ago and IIRC everything was in range, which was confusing. Of course, those are old results, I'll check again first thing the next time I have a spare minute to mess with this bike. I think the key difference is I didn't do both a cold and hot test, so I'll be sure to do b0th and post my results here.
Sorry you had the same issue, but I'm glad you fixed it. Gives me a little hope that replacing my stator could finally solve all my problems. I'd like to also pull off my stator cover when I have a minute, but I think that'll come after my stator arrives... I don't wanna halfass it back together and have a pookied up gasket. (Although, does it really matter if I'm gonna end up not riding until I get a new stator? I guess I'm just scared of dust getting in the cover while I get it open. Or maybe I'm just hitting the hash again, hmm...)

Not worried, just a little curious cat, as usual.

 

Just got tracking #'s in, estimated delivery straight from China, August 18th...
I'm curious as to what the gasket in the stator cover is for. I've never had a look inside. Is it just to keep the stator/flywheel clean, or do liquids circulate through the chamber?

 

The answer to this can be found in the service manual under the "Battery/Charging System" section. Read that before proceeding.

 

Just did some tests without running the engine- I'm reading the same voltage between the RR connector and the battery, which is good (Jack's RR included a wiring harness, which effectively replaces the need for a VFRness). Lo and behold, there's continuity between all three phased on the stator. I'm glad I FINALLY know what's wrong, however I'm a little concerned that I didn't pick up on this the last time I ran these tests. I think when I did those original tests, I was using my crappy tester leads that wouldn't contact very well with my tester, so no duh they wouldn't show cont. I bought brand new leads very recently, so that's my theory. Those old leads were all I had when I ran the original test.
At least now I can sleep better knowing that it is indeed the one part of the charging system that I haven't replaced yet
I'm a little worried that my RR may have been damaged by the stator. Worst comes to worst, I buy a new one, or ask Jack if I could get a (discounted) replacement. It's a MOSFET so hopefully it's tough enough to take whatever bullcrap this stator threw at it.

 

https://vfrworld.com/threads/5th-gen-service-manual-download.52264/

 

Ah, Rick's! Almost bought a MOSFET from them, and they were the first name that popped into my head when I figured out I needed a new stator... Rod Rides and Wrenches was where I found myself reviewing the procedure when I got home from the side of the road, and he recommended this stator from Bikers Run! which happened to be on sale just when I needed one. I guess I just have to wait till the 18th, so no riding in the mean time... not that I really want to, it's 106F all week...
I guess now would probably be a good time to switch to dist. water with WW. I need to pull off the side fairing anyway, I just repaired my slave cyl and need a new bolt down there. (Clutch feels better than it ever has now! )

 

Also-- to anyone who reads this with this same issue in the future: The Honda service manual says @ 68F, 13.0-13.2 is 'fully charged' and below 12.3V is 'needs charging.' The stator is also supposed to output 470W @ 5,000 RPM, and there should be 0.1-1.0 ohm resistance between all three phases. (And no continuity)
Chapter 16 has everything else you need to know.

 

A normal phase winding resistance reading of 0.1 - 1.0 ohms WILL seem like continuity. You make no mention that you have checked the phase wires to Ground, this should be infinity resistance and it's the most common failure mode, a short to Ground.

"And no continuity "! ....................Between any phase wire and Ground.

And what this doesn't mention is that terminal voltage of a lead acid battery is not a true indication of battery Capacity - It's ability to deliver plenty of cranking amps when starting.

 

Is it? I've yet a stator fail by shorting to ground. They've all lost power output as they degrade and this is only seen with an AC voltage test.

 

Just saying it appears to be the most common, not the only mode of failure.

I've only ever replaced two stators from two different 6gens, and both were shorted to Ground (both bikes had no issue with the R/R). A Short to Ground also seems to be the most common I read about. I also recall a chat I had with a Honda service tech I knew years ago, he mentioned the high number of shorted stators he's seen, some even during warranty periods.
Stator failure happens typically in the area of the windings that are not bathed in engine oil, the windings get so hot from lack of heat dissipation that the insulation breaks down causing either a coil wire to wire short, or a wire to the iron core short (Ground). See attached pic.

It's interesting that Honda has addressed this issue on the 8gen by installing a forced oil cooling sprayer to dissipate heat from the stator windings (apart from the newer, more efficient R/R). I haven't heard of a single Stator failure on an 8gen, and many of them, including my own, are getting up to very high mileage.