I must be doing it wrong

"If sex is a pain in the butt, you're doing it all wrong."

I've started hanging off in hard corners but it's a pain the foot. I'm still dragging the peg (well, sensor) a lot and don't much care for the sensation.

Yes, I know I can remove the sensor; My real question is.

Having replaced the stock dunlops on my '06 (non-abs) with Conti Road Attacks, and having learned everything there is to know about cornering a motorcycle via the internet (http://www.soundrider.com/archive/safety-skills/coming_unglued.htm), I have been hanging off and testing my cornering abilities. I get some daily exercise on the two 270deg On-ramps during my daily slab commute.

I was under the impression that shifting my weight inside would increase the turn rate for a given angle of lean but now that I'm hanging off consistently (and yeah I am going faster around the turns than before), I'm scraping the sensor pretty regularly.

Is it true that hanging off increases the rate of turn for a given lean angle?

Do you scrape your sensors regularly in hard cornering?

randy.B

 

Randy:

This is hard to answer because we need to "see" what you are doing. Can someone take a couple pictures of you hanging off. It can be in a parking lot, the exit ramps, whatever, but I can tell you that I too was reading how to hang off in books internet, etc. And when I finally went to a cornering school man I was doing it wrong.

Your feet hurting concerns me, I have not had that happen.

Also, what do you mean by increasing the rate of turn for a given lean angle?

When I did the cornering school I did not drag any parts and had some awesome lean angle. From what I learned if your suspention is set correctly and your throttle control and hanging off form is correct, then dragging parts is minimized.

Send some pictures and we'll go from there!

BZ

 

As Bubba indicates its hard know without seeing, sounds like you're ready for an advanced riders course as they will watch and advise you correctly.

When I did mine had previously "thought" I was hanging off, but after the advanced course found that I hadn't and for example a left corner my right shoulder should be approx behind the left bar the left cheek was off the seat and being in right gear before the corner with knee bent the ball of my left foot was ontop of the peg, since then have never decked out my feelers no matter how tight the corner is.

If your bikes preload and rebound is set right for your weight and you are still dragging your Peg feelers you could try to shim up your rear shock to raise it a little, if after all the above you are still dragging you might like to try a Gixxer. :wink:

 

BZ, the pain in the foot was tongue-in-cheek, just like the reference to learning how to corner off the internet . It doesn't hurt, but when you're railing a turn at speed, dragging the sensor is a distracting sensation.

It's actually encouraging to know I should be able to increase the rate of turn without leaning the bike to the limit. I'll be getting some coaching and peer feedback in a few weeks at SBNW. I may blow a C-note on the cornering clinic.

randy.B

 

If you are not slightly accelerating during the turn, the suspension will sag and you will drag parts earlier. Start into the turn at a slower speed and smoothly accelerate throughout the turn. This will increase your stability and raise the suspension.

I recommend you find an open parking lot and practice, practice, practice.

 

I have been leery about doing this in parking lots due to the amount of crap usually found in said lots, and what kind of speeds do you suggest one tries this to start? I normally hang off on corners and have noticed considerable improvements in the bikes handling through corners, and I have never ever dragged a thing. All be it I do still have 1/4 inch chicken strips, I have had that thing over hard enough to push past the bikes available friction and start pushing out the rear wheel.
Sounds like I need a track day or course too, but the first bike course I took was so remedial, I get worried that the advanced course will span from "riding in more than second gear" to "accelerating or merging". I want some legit track action, but the northeast seems to be pretty lacking in that area. Any people in RI, CT, MA or NH have any ideas?

 

It's best to find a lot that has recently been constructed or not used often. I find movie theatre parking lots on Sunday mornings seem to work best. School parking lots are another. They are usually made to handle far more cars than are generally parked - so the outlying spaces are clean.

Personally I do circles, constantly increasing speed and lean angle until something drags, the tires start sliding, or I run out of guts - haven't dragged anything yet and the tires haven't started sliding - so you know what that means :wink: . Once comfortable, I then do circles the other way.

See what happens when you gradually back off the throttle. See what happens when you gradually increase the throttle.

You won't get high speed doing this - but you are working on technique right now - not speed. The phrase I've heard from many track school students is practice smooth ... speed will follow.

I bet the course you took was an MSF course. They teach street-riding skills, not track-riding skills.

Most track schools have varying courses of skill levels. Virtually all have a "first track day" course. Those that don't specifically state it.

 

Be wary of practicing your "full lean" at low speeds in parking lots. One of the best racetrack lessons I learned was "go fast in fast corners". Bikes are far more stable at higher speeds due to the higher gyroscopic inertia of the rotating wheels. At low speeds, wheels don't have as much "gyro" and its a lot more likely they will let you down. I wouldn't recommend any full lean activity much below 50 MPH.

My 2 cents...

 

I have been toying with the idea of participating in the "Tony's Trackdays" events at the Louden NH or NHIS race track.... My Buddy took his Triumph 675 a few weeks ago and I went to go see what it's all about....

For more info check out their website at:
http://www.tonystrackdays.com

I Met a few guys from VFRD there. I had ridden my bike up and they really wanted to see a 6th Gen out on the track as they had a 4th and 5th gen out on the track... They were doing well....

Tony's I have heard, is very relaxed and you are encouraged to go at your own pace... It really was not what I was expecting as at first description I really had no interest to take my bike out on the track... But They have a class in the morning and a follow the leader session and then you get scheduled track time as a group....

The next date is sold out but I'm not gonna head onto that untill I get a fresh set of tires. The Tires I have came with the bike when I bought it in May and I'm not really sure how old the rubber really is....

 

also check your suspension settings
if you firm up the rear shock, depending on a bunch of stuff we don't know at this point; but if it is too soft, you may get a little more angle out of firming it up, which may essentially raise your rear end (pun not intended, but certainly plays into what you started), and give you greater cornering clearance, otherwise replacement to a aftermarket one that is height adjustable one may help, with some attention to the front shocks too

 

Blow the C-note on the cornering school.

The best things a motorcyclist can blow money on is good gear, suspension upgrades, and good training.

And no offence Flameface, but that is some of the worst advice I have ever heard.

As Mason said, practice at a slower speed to get the skills down then add the speed.

BZ

 

Here's another awesome course/instructor that has schools nationwide. I have taken his course. It is awesome. He also wrote a great book that works wonders itself. His name is Lee Parks.


Course:
http://www.leeparksdesign.com/eshop...uct_422643.Total_Control_Clinic_October_2.htm

Book:
http://www.leeparksdesign.com/eshopprod_cat_530-18381_product_72946.Total_Control.htm

One of the most popular motorcycle books on Amazon.

Get in touch with him if you need a course somewhere other than CA, and one of his local instructors will work with you.

- k

 

Ivako:

That's the course I did too! It was great! I wrote a review in the riding school forum.

BZ

 

http://vfrworld.com/forums/riding-school-reviews/9555-total-control-advanced-riding-clinic.html

Here is the link for the review!

BZ

 

fast vs slow corners

At the track, it is always tempting to overtake in "slow corners" because you are physically closer to the guy you're trying to pass. (two seconds behind at 60 vs two seconds behind at 120 = 1/2 the distance). Guys would be dragging the fairing, hanging off to beat hell trying to pick up time in "slow corners" and...fall. Lots more guys would fall off in slow corners vs fast sweepers.

 

Bubba,

Glad to know you liked the course too. Best money I ever spent. I'm going a second time in late Sept, to get a refresher and to take my fiancee.

Plus, it is hella fun!

When I get the scratch, I'll take a private one with my buddies.

Karsten.

 

I agree on best money spent. I plan on a refresher next year!

BZ