VFR's and cheap gas

sorry eddie.

Sorry Eddie. I misunderstood what your wrote here to mean that you would rather use higher octane fuel than destroy your engine using the octane Honda states is safe. My bad. I apologize if I was rude.

running the numbers...

If I ride 4000 miles, get 40 miles for every gallon of fuel, and fuel costs $3/gallon reg. $3.20/gal hi-test. I use 4000/40 = 100 gal of fuel. 100 gal * $3/gal = $300 regular, $320 hi-test.

I'd rather spend my $20 "insurance" money on frosty cold beverages vice the higher octane fuel and insure I have a nice weekend. Hope you do too. Prosit!

:biggrin:

 

A common myth amongst petrol consumers is that adding a higher octane fuel to a vehicle's engine will increase its performance and/or lessen its fuel consumption; this is false—engines perform best when using fuel with the octane rating they were designed for and any increase in performance by using a fuel with a different octane rating is minimal or even imaginary.

http://www.answers.com/topic/octane-rating-1

 

I have to agree. Higher octane isn't always better. Some of my friends are avid drag racers (rear engine dragsters 600+HP). They use 115-125 octane racing gas, which won't even run in a regular engine. They carry reg. gas for their generators and pit bikes. It's not about the money at all. The pit bikes won't even start on the racing gas. I know this is the other extreme, but it shows that more isn't always better. I ran some 125 octane in my '83 ceptor and had to siphen it out. Ran like crap.

 

Maybe the newer VFRs are different but on many honda V4s you would be doing more harm than good because the hightest stiff would result in higher carbon build up.

 

Well, I did it. I put 87 octane in the RWB. I can't seem to tell any difference. Like I said, I don't care about the .10 per gallon, I just want to buy what the bike likes best. I'd buy it a prime rib dinner if I thought it would keep the bike happy. I plan to keep this bike forever, and want only the best for it, whether it be 92, 89 or 87.

 

I guess I just do not see how increasing the octane adds insurance? The engine is designed to run on 86 or better octane and that means that is NOT going to detonate on it unless something else goes wrong with the bike. If something else is wrong, the only thing the higher grade stuff MIGHT do is hide the problem for a little while. That is not to say that it might be wise to increase octane if you do engine modifications. (for example I always run 93 in my kx500 or it WILL detonate) I have run 87 and never had any problems with detonation - compression is still great nothing is wrong and if something does go wrong, I can bet it would have NOTHING to do with octane. IMHO - getting higher octane just because you think its better shows a lack of understanding about octane or basic engine performance but hey - go ahead its your money and a free country (well sort of) and I am just some idiot on a message board

 

eddie i was with you on this one always filled up with a mid grade fuel for that possible extra gain and possible long term benifits and better milage. on a ride out of town could only fill up with regular 87 i had no choice. was suprised to find bike ran the same got the same milage made no difference so i decided to just use the cheap stuff unless i hear some pinging or lack of performance im sticking with the cheap stuff

 

Here in Colorado regular is 85, mid is 87. Which would you use?

 

The Toyota has a knock sensor that retards the timing when it senses detonation or preignition. This is why the performance suffers with the lower octane fuel, not because the fuel is less powerful. Unfortunately the VFR does not have a knock sensor to protect the engine so unless you have a sixth sense to know when to let off I would suggest that you use the highest octane available. These engines have a high compression ratio and can be damaged with poor fuel even though you may not feel the difference when riding it at the time.

It isn't worth the risk in my mind especially if you intend to keep the bike a long time.

 

Dear Jethro911; Man it was getting mighty lonely out there. Thank God someone in the VFR universe is understanding to my point. Just to recap, hi test gas (93) wont necessarily make your engine produce more power, unless the compression ratio demands it. Also hi test wont necessarily make your engine live longer, unless your motor is detonating ,possibly due to temperatures, engine load , or incorrect air fuel ratio. However , I firmly believe it is safer to era on the high side when selecting fuel for your machine. I am not suggesting using exotic fuels or anything like that.

 

Dear Jethro911; Man it was getting mighty lonely out there. Thank God someone in the VFR universe is understanding to my point. Just to recap, hi test gas (93) wont necessarily make your engine produce more power, unless the compression ratio demands it. Also hi test wont necessarily make your engine live longer, unless your motor is detonating ,possibly due to temperatures, engine load , or incorrect air fuel ratio. However , I firmly believe it is safer to era on the high side when selecting fuel for your machine. I am not suggesting using exotic fuels or anything like that. Also if I ever see one of you guys putting 87 octane fuel in your machine , I wont beat you up. Anyway hopefully we have had a little fun

 

87 because you want 86 or higher

 

And furthermore, I wont beat you up if I find out you are using 87 octane for your VFR. Anyway I hope we have all had a little fun with this . And seriously, my intension was only to make everyone aware of their fuel selection options. I like to ride my bike better than fixing it and buying parts for it. So if higher grade fuel , at least in my mind , can contribute to that , I will use it whenever possible . THANKS AND GOOD RIDING TO ALL THIS WEEKEND. EDDIE

 

You know I wrote a response after reading the first few posts and then I read the remaining replies and wished that I had just stayed out of it all together. Oh well.

Just a further thought for anyone running a high mileage bike. While a new VFR has a compression ratio of (10.5:1) this is just a guess as I have not researched it. As the bike ages and the carbon builds up on the piston and in the combustion chamber, it will increase the compression ratio by reducing the volume of the combustion chamber just like installing a high compression piston would. You may find that the fuel requirements a stated by Honda will nolonger be applicable for your engine in its aged condition.

Personally, I play it safe as I use different filling stations all the time and you just never know what you are getting out of those nozzles. The best they have is the best they have so you can never blame yourself. That is just my choice.

Peace all.

 

Well, if higher altitude somehow makes 85 here the equivalent of 87 at sea level isnt 85 ok?

 

Yo Chestthing; I dare not tell you what fuel to use, cause you know which way I would go. However, I think it's a reasonable question to ask the HONDA
dealership. Not necessarily the first person that you encounter there, but someone that you have a good degree of trust. I would like to hear what
that Rocky Mountain high person tells you. eddie

 

If I'm not mistaken, the compression ratio for my 02 VFR is around the 11:1 ratio. That being said, I'll spend the little bit extra and put in premium (91 octane here) and have some peace of mind.

 

Hi-Low Octane Game! & u can Play!

(this is meant in fun, so don't get tooooo pissy, some is likely deserved)

I live on the east coast, so the complex math question may be different over here and down at sea level, so let's play the Hi - Low game boys & girls. :cheer2:

Given that Owner's manual says "86 (or higher)".

Can anyone tell the forum if the number

"85"

is Higher -or- Lower than the number

"86"

Anyone? Anyone?

 

It would depend on the base .... normally we think only of base 10 ... but :lever: and if each number is referenced to the same base .... or if one is measuring continental drift ....

 

85 octane gas is available in the high elevations because of the lower air pressure. At the highest of elevations the lower baro pressure means there is less air for the engine to pull in on the intake stroke, resulting in lower compression in psi. This lower compression allows the use of lower octane gas. 85 octane would preignite at sea level where it wouldn't at high elevations in the same engine. Honda's # of 87 octane is safe at all elevations.