Working on cornering

Great advice!

 

Road to work this morning, back country road, mostly twisty.

On the last ride I had, I tried turning with only weighting and un-weighting. I didn't need to use the bars much at all, at least at the speeds I was going. The "body positioning" thing is what I lacked. Now bar inputs are about 20% of what they used to be. I don't feel like I'm steer wrestling anymore. I have no interest in hanging off. Moving the hips torso and shoulders seems to be enough for now.

I'm not where I want to be but I'm pointing in the right direction.
Thanks again.

 

Your post makes it sound as though you steered the bike significantly by moving your body around, but you did not. Your hand was on the bar and you shifted your shoulder and put significant pressure on that side of the bar, which leaned the bike.

Have you watched Keith Code's videos where he puts people on the bike with fixed handlebars and tells them, "go ahead and steer"? Even at slow speeds the motorcycle has 700 lbs of forward momentum and significant forces, that all added together want to keep the bike in a straight line.

If you felt that you were "steer wrestling" then you are doing something wrong, or there is a problem with the bike. As far as the bike goes the only think I can think of is the tires. If they are oversized, they can "square off", and you would have trouble steering them past the square point. As far as steering, if you are sitting above the handlebars and pushing down, maybe due to a seat or bar change, then start pushing the bar purely left and right and note not to press down at all. The steering and lean should come easily with pressure in the correct direction.

 

Me? Do something wrong? Never

 

I was going thru some old links I have and found this and thought of you. I've tried this and it's all he says it is. The point being easy in hard out works very good. Just ask Jackie Stewart.

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=310

The main cornering form is here:

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showforum=2

 

The difference being that Knight is regurgitating right out of the book. The dude is a one year noob. Plus nobody really talks like that except maybe those damned Canadians..

 

As I said before, sometimes I feel like Marc Marquez. Sometimes I feel like sunofwolf. Go figure . . .










.

 

I followed somebody's advice and watched Twist of the Wrist II by Keith Code on Youtube last week (well most of it, with Korean subtitles...). I have a copy (and have read) his first book, but the movie was an easier thing to comprehend. One point which I picked up was about keeping your upper body loose and letting the steering find its own way over bumps. I kept this in mind on an epic 260km ride over the weekend, (nearly all good fast twisty roads), what I found was that my default position is to keep my arms nearly locked at the elbows. From the video and now being aware of it, this does make for a less stable ride.

I consciously needed to lean a little further forward and slightly bend my elbows so I could loosen up, but I believe it made quite a difference, both to my fatigue level (i.e. I had less because I was more relaxed) but also to my comfort over some bumpy sections, where the bike just seemed to soak them up more easily.

I've been riding for over 30 years, it is nice to learn something new. I decided to stick my (local equivalent to) Helibars back on, so I can keep the relaxed grip but not lean quite so far forwards.

 

After feeling this way many times, even as I am just ending my first full riding season, I am beginning to suspect that this feeling is universal.

I had a ride a couple days ago where I felt uncomfortable for an hour straight. Then I made some turns with absolute perfection. It is frightening how some small loss of concentration can happen, or some physical tension can build up without realizing it. As I got into this sport I listened to several friends talk about how they started motorcycling, then had an incident, and got right out of it. It is easy to understand how incidents can quickly, and blindly creep up.

Consider than Rossi said (one of the "Fast" videos?) that he does not ride on the street because it is too dangerous. That is the guy who can do the same lap 20 times and come within a tenth or two time-wise. That sure says something about our daily concentration requirements on the street.

 

Let us fall to our knees and pray for our brother Alaskan, that the former feeling is greater than the latter.

 

So you actually at times feel that bad.........I'll burn a sacrifice for you.........


You just stated the biggest and most important thing you need when riding. Your mental attitude! You need to focus on what you want to do and what you are doing at the time. When they both come together you are in the zone and time will slow down. Then all your moves are nothing but reflexes at the time where you are at and your head/mind is where you are going to be and you are aware of everything in between.

 

I agree with Randy that working on too many things will not move you forward, too many variables. Long before you can master the fine art of trail braking (I mean while deep in a corner on the brakes, front end is loaded, geometry of the bike with a compressed suspension making turning easier and as centrifugal force increases you are smoothly letting off the brakes so the suspension does not spring back when the brakes are let off, you finish the apex and smoothly start dialing on throttle and standing the bike up for a quick drive out) you need to learn a bunch of other stuff!! Kieth Code is right that brakes can be a crutch. No brake drills at the track will progress you quicker than you can imaging. I know many very experienced track riders and racers that have learned a lot from this simple exercise. Kieth Code is a member of a private forum I'm on and when this subject came up there was a bit of resistance and banter about the drill but once you have tried it the proof is in the pudding.

Also most stock bikes even super bikes and super sports are not set up properly for turning. Suspension has to be adjusted to you weight and capabilities, tires are critical, have the right kind and in excellent shape. I have thousands in suspension work on my track bike but if the geometry is set up wrong I would be wrestling it through corners. Unless your REALLY fast you should be able to takes corners with very little input pressure on the bars if your bike is set up right. I have to constantly make myself relax my grip, it really is critical to allow the bike to do its thing, its usually a lot smarter than the rider. At least in my case. lol

 

As an alternative go oot and buy all kinds of stuff to strap on your bike and other stuff to carry the other stuff on your bike. Stereos, TVs, CB Radios, an intercom system and maybe even a back up for the chatty types.. A small microwave, at least two of those gimbaled cup and can holders, a pair of those bigass panniers that will hold all the stuff you need from Walmart and finally if ya run oot of stuff from regular sources there's always the Harley Stores.

This way we could all be well equipped fast guys.

 

Yesterday I found myself coming out a little wide. Decided to turn in just a little sooner than I'm used to and it helped.

I hate to tell on myself but I got caught looking at scenery yesterday. One hand on the trottle. Crossed the center line. Van in other lane. He moved right and I pushed hard on the right bar. Not terribly close but enough to make me pucker and beat myself up.

 

If it's at all possible, get some trackdays under you. You'll never know what you are doing wrong until someone more experienced can help you see it. Read, watch videos, but only from those that have real experience behind them. YCRS, California Superbike School, Class, STAR Academy etc. You want to make sure that what you're learning is something you really should be learning. Be very selective of who's giving you tips. The last thing you need is to learn a wrong way of doing it.

Then, as mentioned above, practice one thing at a time. One thing I am still working on is to use my core to support my weight and not my arms. It affects everything, curves, braking, even going down the freeway. I am working on squeezing the tank and using my legs/torso to keep my weight off of my arms.

 

Ken Hill with Yahama Champions Riding school is most excellent. I know a bunch of guys that have taken his school. Rent an R6 and take out the insurance. A buddy high sided and totaled one at school. Well worth it. (Not the high side, the insurance)

 

LOL! I like that last disclaimer. I don't know anybody who went through a high side and felt it was worth it!

To add to the thread, decades ago I attended the California Super Bike School and like mentioned before, doing the track without brakes and being in top gear, was really intimidating at first but once you realized it was a mental block preventing you from doing it, it really opened the doors for improvement. I also attended the Lee Parks Total Control Class more recently. I felt it was tailored more to the average street rider who is looking to improve his riding abilities, than the more track oriented CSBS (Based on my experience). Although the book 'Total Control' is a great book (second edition is out now), hands on training and live coaching is one of the best ways to get better. As far as the Total Control Class, the classroom curriculum and instructors were great, I definitely recommend attending this class.

 

I have Lee Parks book, very good one. I also took Penguin Race school at Miami International raceway with the Woods (Woodcraft). Their hands on is very good and they shoot video and stills that they bring back to the classroom and use to help teach. You can save thousands of dollars and years of riding with a little hands on training.
A friend of mine runs a track organization and I'm fortunate that I get to ride with him often at the track. He is a very good teacher. First no brake drill was with him at Jennings, very intimidating at first and I "had" to use the brakes at first. lol High gear, virtually no engine braking........ ass pucker and 2 fingers went right to the brake. This drill on small bikes is a blast. But for the first time on my CBR 1000 is scared the crap out of me.