PREPARED TO TAKE A BULLET('s)

There is not and has not ever been any way for HONDA or anyone else for that matter, the ability to "plug in" and "reflash" a new map into the ECM/ECU, depending which school you are in or came from ( Aussie Humour)!! The only remotely possible way is to remove (or piggyback) the EPROM or EEPROM from the unit above and replace it with another one that is. Anyone care to prove me wrong, please do I hope somebody can, and will provide the information as to how this operation is performed. Not trying to come across as a smart arse (ass), just stating what I believe are the facts as I know them after much discussion with Honda.

Cheers Rusty

 

Rusty, I'm not sure what you consider "proof", but I'll take a stab at this. I'm going to state what I know from my work, but don't really care to turn this into a lengthy debate. I've been a Toyota Master Technician for almost thirty years now, and a "Master Diagnostic Technician" since they implemented that certification somewhere around the mid '90s to my recollection (I could look it up if you really just had to know). Until the early 2000s, if we had software issues, the fix was to replace the ECM. Somewhere around '02 or '03 (again, I could look it up if you really needed to know), we gained the ability to reflash ECMs to resolve software glitches with our engine and transmission control computers. The process got better (easier) over time as our equipment improved. The early stuff meant you had to download the reflash to the scan tool and then upload it to the vehicle, and the scan tool was only capable of storing two flashes on-board. The process was slowwwwww. When we got a new Windows based scan tool, we gained the ability to download the reflash on the spot and upload it directly to the car from a laptop that plugged into the car via a VIM (vehicle interface module). We're still using that system today and reflashes are common to resolve fueling, emission, and shifting issues. Reflashes must be approved by the US Environmental Protection Agency and we're supposed to affix a sticker to the car after a reflash stating the old and new calibration numbers and under what authority the reflash is being made. So unless this has all been one really big hoax for a very long time, yes...we do have the ability to reflash vehicle ECMs. I'm not a subscriber to conspiracy theories, and as a rule, the reflashes do seem to resolve the complaints for which we're performing them. Believe this information or don't...your call. This is what I do for a living. I spend nearly as much time with a laptop in my hand as a wrench, and it's been that way for a very long time. I have no reason to believe Honda has any less technological capability than we do.

 

ECUnleashed has already been flashing CBR600RR & CBR1000RR ECU's for some time now and have a flash for the VFR1200. Perhaps make a Skype call to them and ask how they do it. I had an '08 CBR1krr so I've checked the forum and plenty of people have had it done.

I've flashed my R1 ECU as well, to remove factory restrictions. And there are a whole bunch of folks running around with ECUnleashed flashed ECU's on their R1's. seen the dyno charts as well as mine own.

I'll be sending in my vfr1200 ECU for flashing some time this summer but I won't feel the need to "prove" anything to you. And I'd doubt they want to release to you or anyone else how they do it.

And what I find hilarious about your post Rusty, is we have members here who have had their ECU's reflashed at the dealer by a Honda tech and have posted about it here. :croc:

Your Honda people you've been talking to know fukall.

 

Completely wrong.

 

Dave I am not doubting your ability and extensive knowledge in any way shape or form, yet you are talking exclusively about Toyota. Honda do things differently.

Why does it take so long for them to "flash" them?? You have actually seen this done then??

I thought an R1 was a Yamaha, was I not talking about Honda's??

Make up your mind, Skype them... now this?? I really don't think you could prove anything to me!

Do you know what I find hilarious......you, believing this so called fact without any knowledge.

Ah, well 'coz you said so then it must be true, I will tell them then, I'm sure they will recheck with their bosses, wait, they can't they were the bosses.

Oh really? How so?

The so called "flash", remap has supposedly only been released to EU (including UK) and Canada, and still no one has actually come up with PROOF that it exists. Just because somebody had their bike hooked up to a HIM or HDS by a Honda tech. means nothing. Those who counterfeit something before it is even released, STILL can not provide a scanner that will do much more on a HONDA bike than anyone can do with a paperclip, a lot of other makes yes, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki etc. etc. but not a HONDA.

All this natter, and still NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF!

 

Since it's a mail in service, and I'm not local, well I'm not going to hop a plane just to watch them flash my ECU even if they'd let me. Having seen the process on my Yamaha, there just isn't much to see. The only thing I read on the time it takes was the group buy thread on here and vfrd, and they said to mail it in during their Honda work, which IIRC was the 15th of each month.

I consider proof to be dozens of people on forums, like 1000RR.net, that report back with nary a complaint. I haven't seen a single complaint post flash, not a one, only praise. And those are Honda CBR1000RR ECU's. Go join that forum and post a doubt thread there, perhaps you'll get more responses and you can argue with them on how their derestricted ECU is just their imagination or placebo effect.

To my knowledge, nobody has sent their VFR1200 ECU into them yet. We were trying to get a group buy going but couldn't get 5 people to commit and that's understandable because it isn't cheap.

I have faith in them because they are a reputable company. They've been in our US magazines with dyno charts provided pre and post flash. They've also worked with multiple AMA Race Teams. As I said, hundreds of happy Yam owners, and I've read dozens of happy Honda owners on that Fireblade forum.

I guess I'm the opposite of you. I have no reasons to doubt them, 0. I'll be sending mine in, with 0 worry, in July/August when I'm ready to decat my exhaust and weld some SS. I don't mind being the guinea pig based on what I know about them but I have 0 interest in pestering them about how they are doing this and that. I just want the restrictions gone and my gear indicator to work. I'd do a pre/post dyno session if I was concerned but it's only going on the dyno once it's flashed, the cat is removed, and I have the DJ auto-tune module wired in. My dyno guy is just over an hour away so it's not something I want to go back and forth on as getting his time is a bitch enough as it is. And once I've spent the money how does proving anything to you help me out? It doesn't.

 

eprom needs to be replaced,e2proms can be written again, but who uses such old technology anymore? tsops are by far more popular to work with

 

Holy shit. Does this mean Obama is actually a shitty US President, despite the media telling us he's the bees knees? I met a gal once that would flash anyone for free....some say she was an trick of my imagination. I say her name was Janet...lol

Next thing I'll see is that those bells everyone puts on their bikes actually prevents their bikes from breaking down too! NO such thing as a ecu/ecm reflash....haaha! Thanks I needed the laugh. It's been a rough week!

 

So just to make sure I understand your position, you're saying that all those on this and other forums who claim they had a reflash done by their dealer, and also feel they benefited from it, have actually been duped and this is nothing more than an elaborate hoax by Honda, and any perceived benefit is just their imagination since you say Honda doesn't possess the ability to reflash their ECUs. (forgive my heinous run-on sentence) Does that sum it up??

 

Yeah, I'm sure that's a constant problem for you... :crazy:

 

LMAO. I guess to quote Mr. hand "they're all on dope."

 

Until proven otherwise Dave, what can I say except yes. I know that you can do it on Toyota's, so can just about anyone else after getting the right equipment. Try getting it for Honda motorcycles. The benefits people may be feeling could possibly be from a reset and a service, cable adjustment, who knows, or dare I say it, a remapotstir: Have you tried getting a dealer in Ohio to reflash yours? Believe me I have tried many dealers here and nothing, plus Honda Australia all the way, same result. Right through the manual, any fault going back to the ECM - REPLACE the ECM, not take it to your dealer to have it reflashed!!

You may keep mouthing off all you like, try backing it up with proof. Have you had your 800 OEM ECU flashed? Careful what you say though, I could be Muslim.:chaingun:

I'm still waiting, but as I said earlier the thread seems to be off track and dead as there is no sign of proof, just hearsay.

 

Here's one for another mouth that is not connected to a brain. Now read it slowly and carefully, so that you can take it in.

Taken directly from ECUnleashed's Authorised Florida tuning centre site.

"We can re-flash Honda ECU’s! For only 449.00 we can re-lash your CBR600RR or CBR1000RR. This is a hard-wire adjustment, so we will require a minimum of 4-6 weeks. this is a fantastic tune that give some really good mid-range and top-end power!"

I even underlined and made it bold so that you might see and understand the relevant words. You do know what a "hard-wire adjustment" is? Then after the re-flash of the ECU, they then re-lash it as well, must have been uncooperative or something.

End of story for you I guess, or do you have something smart to say??

 

So basically what you are saying is after they are done doing what they do, the restrictions are gone? Why do I care how they do it? You seem to be the only one hung up on this. The service is called a reflash. If they are replacing hardware to do it and reflashing, well I don't see the upheaval over it that you are projecting. In the end the ECU is modified. Does it matter how they do this? I mean, step 1, remove ECU from bike, mail it insured. Step 2 Receive it back, reinstall. So please explain to me how different that is from the owners perspective either way. All you are doing is pulling the ECU off and reinstalling it. Whether there is hardware involved, software only, I just don't care.

And as I've mentioned to you already I'm not concerned with how they do it. I've got better things to do than concern myself over the how. I just know it works and works rather well. I'm not gonna waste my time calling Dynojet and asking them to explain how the power commander does what it does, or the auto tune module, etc.

If you are that concerned with it then start a petition for them to call it ECU modification instead of a reflash service but I'll think you'll find that nobody will give a shit

 

Boy, the connection I mentioned most definitely is true, and you don't know what "Hard Wired" means. Just so we can end this completely, you have been off thread the entire time, I stated "There is not and has not ever been any way for HONDA or anyone else for that matter, the ability to "plug in" and "reflash" a new map into the ECM/ECU". You jumped in spouting "ECUleashed" who do not have the ability to do anything close to what I stated. That is to plug a device into a connection on the motorcycle being a HONDA and remap or flash the ECM. BTW, when you send your ECM into ECUleashed, make sure you tell them all the modifications you have done, 'coz once it's done, that's it, you can't change it. There is no plug in capability STILL, so if you add something else to the bike, guess what, you have to send the ECM back again, that's "Hard Wired". So good luck if you go down that path, I personally wouldn't 'coz my ride is always a work in progress.
Now where's the hilarity, and I gave up dope years ago, though it looks like it stuck with you.

Please don't reply, it takes too long to decipher what you are actually trying to say.

Cheers and good luck Rusty

 

I'm not having them adjust for my mods. I'll take poor assumptions for a thousand Alex.

I'll be doing that myself on the dyno, altering A/F, etc. They'll be getting rid of the restrictions and altering engine braking, that's it. So the modified ECU can work with a stock bike, or modded, won't make a bit of difference what mods are done.

 

Your poor grammar made it seem as though you were claiming that no bike of any make could have an ECU flash, which is nonsense.

As for your insistence that no Honda can have an ECU flash, well, I still have no idea why you think that. - There are companies out there which advertise their ability to perform that work and there are also people who have written testimonials to the effect that an ECU flash has fixed fuelling errors they were having. This being the case, are we to believe that those companies are making fraudulent claims and their customers are merely imagining their improved results?

 

Proof of a re-flash can usually be printed following the "re-flash" procedure. Or can be viewed directly on a scan tool, usually the old and or new "calibration numbers" are displayed in the data stream.

If you want proof, ask a Honda tech at a Honda dealership if they'll show a printout or live data on any Honda or Acura product.

 

Reflash with a torque hammer...???