Gen 6 Brake question

So I've never had a bike with ABS, or linked brakes for that matter, but when I pull the front brake it doesn't feel like it has the same stopping power as my 919 did. I feel like I really have to pull it hard to stop quickly. If I push the rear brake at the same time it's a lot better.


You think I may have some air in the line or soemthing? the fluid level seems fine.

 

Try to blead the line again and make sure to break loose the banjo by the reservoir give it a couple tap
Pump several time to get the air out. You might want to swap out the pad to Gaffer or EBC for better stopping power

 

Do the brakes feel spongy, is the fluid clean? Also, keep in mind that the VFR is 100 lbs. heavier than the 919.

 

I just recently replaced all my rubber hose lines with steel braided lines and installed EBC HH pads. The bike feels like it'll stop on a dime and give 9 cents change now! You don't need to go that far but a decent bleeding might actually make a big difference. The linked braking only comes into play when the rotors are spinning, i.e. You're in motion. You can bleed just the fronts and not have to touch the linked braking components, but you'll want to pick up or download the service manual if you bleed the entire system. FYI, the front brake master cylinder only affects the front calipers. The secondary master cylinder (located on the left caliper) is the linked part for your front brakes, there is a different bleeder for that one and once you get into that, then you'll need to deal with the linked braking system. You might also check your pads for wear and the rotors for any odd scaring or gouging. If they are getting low on pad life, go with the EBC HH ~$40 each set you'll definitely feel a difference!

 

thanks for the advice dudes. I wouldn't say they feel spongy really I guess, just lacking in power....I wasn't aware that the weight difference was that drastic between the 919 and the VFR though. The fluid is clean, she's only got 7500 miles

 

It really should be two finger braking. I never felt that my '99 was ever lacking in the braking category. A handful of brake would be an immediate front lock-up. That was with the stock brake pads and rubber lines. With the stainless lines and HH pads I have now, it is simply amazing.

 

No. 919 is 485 curb, vfr800 is 540 curb. that is 55 pounds difference...

 

as a side note, like everyone is saying, bleed the brakes and throw on ebc hh pads front and rear. it will stop on a dime.

 

Hi DBG.


Obviously if you are not confident about your brakes, then its sound advice to start by getting your brakes checked, bled, and possibly consider fitting high performance pads/brake lines etc.


I may be reading too much into your post, so no offence is intended, but what you describe is not unexpected. You say the braking is fine when you apply BOTH the front brake lever and the rear brake pedal. So the problem is???


I wonder if you have a misconception about what combined/linked brakes are designed to do and how riders should use them.

Perhaps I should stress that if you are ONLY using the front brake lever, then poor braking is only to be expected. Just because you now own a bike with combined brakes, does not mean you should change how you operate your motorbike, and it does not mean you can effectively stop using the rear brake pedal.

On road bikes, combined brakes were simply intended to improve stability during braking and reduce the risk of the rider doing a stoppie and being thrown over the handlebars if you suddenly apply panic braking to just the front wheel. By simply replumbing the brake lines, the combined/linked system always applies some of the braking effort to both wheels.

Post accident research showed that in an emergency inexperienced riders often panic and only grab the front brake. As a result many end up hitting things which might have been avoided with only a small amount of additional stopping by using the rear brakes. Panic braking on bends is another big cause of accidents, where combined brake systems can help inexperienced riders. YouTube has plenty of examples of how panic braking on a bend (especially using only the front brake) can result in disaster. By always sharing some braking to the rear, a bike fitted with combined/linked brakes should remain more stable and gives the rider a better chance to hold its line through the bend even if you got the entry speed hopelessly wrong.

Yes the front and rear brake system are linked, but just grabbing a handful of front brake will NOT deliver max stopping. On combined(linked) systems you still need to use both the front brake lever and the rear brake pedal to engage max stopping mode.

This is inherently due to the way the brakes are inter-linked. OK I can't be sure about earlier 6th gens as there was a change to the set-up sometime around 2006. But in simple terms when you apply just the front brake lever, it operates 5 out of 6 pistons on the front callipers and also 1 of the 3 pistons on the rear calliper. If you only apply the rear brake then two pistons on the rear caliper operate together with the final piston on the front.

Obviously only when all 9 pistons on the calipers are applied will the VFR brakes potentially deliver maximum stopping. This will continue at least until the tyre(s) start to loose adhesion, which is where the ABS should cut in to give optimum possible stopping whilst still being able to take evading action if required.

Suffice to say the dent on my petrol tank demonstrates that the combined ABS system fitted to a 6th gen can stop very sharply if you really jam on both brakes. :redface:

Take care.


SkiMad

 

I understand how the linked brake works and it's main purpose in a panic stop situation. Most of the time I only use the front brake, unless going very slow in traffic or something.

My 919 just felt like it had more power in the front brakes, or maybe just that the power came on earlier in the pull. After riding my bike hard last weekend I realized the brakes on my VFR didn't seem to REALLY grab until the end of the pull.

 

Mine had the same feeling until I swapped the lines and the pads. The pads alone probably would have given a decent improvement, but all my rides have had steel braided lines, so why not my '09. A set of EBC HH run ~$35+, well worth a try IMO. Note that the pads come in "sets" so you will need 3 sets for your bike, 2 for the front calipers and 1 for the rear caliper. Check out the EBC website, they have a fitting chart which will tell you which pads you'll need.

 

Sorry for thread jacking, but...


OOTVS, how much were the steel braided lines?

 

I would have to find the invoice for the exact amount but if I recall they were close to $450 (with matching clutch line) from Moto-Heaven.com (HEL U.S. DBA). I'm sure you can find them for less, but I went straight to the source. I also didn't have to pay sales tax but others should expect to pay tax if in PA.

 

So now I'm pretty positive I have a front brake issue, When I pull the lever, there is very little resistance, and pretty much no braking happens for about the first inch of the pull. I'm checking my pads tonight.

Would air in the lines cause this?

 

YES! Absolutely.

 

Shit, well I guess I'll be bleeding the brakes. Is there anything special with this linked braking deal?

 

Y

On the 6 Gen the front is mostly independent, at least in regards to what the Master Cylinder operates. The rear is the one that uses the proportional valve and one of the pistons in the left front caliper. Bleeding the front alone is really no big deal. Dealing with the rear brakes, it is a little different and requires tilting the left from and rear calipers to bleed them properly. Not a difficult job, just more time consuming. YMMV

 

Got my 2007 with less than 1500 miles - it has about 6k now.
The brakes are 100% stock, and with 2 fingers on the brake lever, my bike will brake hard enough on a good, dry surface to do a stoppie. Really surprised me the first time it happened :faint2: . They are also really easy to modulate at the limit, and have pretty good feel.
You definitely have a problem with your brakes :fear: .

This is my first experience with linked braking, and although I was a little nervous about this system at first, I can honestly say I really like the 6th gen system. As some one who is always looking to improve things, and continue to adjust the bike to my riding style, I'm sure that better pads, rotors, and ss braided - Teflon lined brake hoses would improve things some. As I noted above, if working properly, the stock system is excellent in use.

From reading the manual, and reading various postings here, though I think the general consensus is that the linked braking system is difficult to bleed using standard methods. You really need a manual to properly diagnose the system, and follow the proper procedure to bleed them well. Just my $0.02

Good Luck!

op2:

 

I agree with soloii in regards to bleeding the whole system, you will need a manual or find one of the post on how to do it. The fronts however only have two bleed points one on the right caliper and one on the left, and shouldn't take much to do them. That being said, there are two bleeders on the left, one is for the linked feed from the rear, the other is for the front MC. Without looking it up, I believe that it is the one at the top of the caliper that is for the front MC.