really excited

Did you buy from Lenny at Rapid Bike USA?
Are you getting any accessories for it? Quick shifter?

 

Heres pictures of my porting the throttle bodies this weekend. Mainly I just wanted to ensure that my velocity stacks matched up perfectly to the air box (velocity stacks are off of a 2002 R6 so they are 38mm and required matching), and I wanted to get rid of all the factory casting marks/lines:












































Here you can really see how bad the factory throttle bodies were and how my R6 velocity stacks didnt really match that well:
























And here you can see how I cleaned everything up a little:

 

The vfr800 has 38degrees ignition advance from ???? rpm to max RPM. I don't have the manual handy, but think its 5500-12K rpm. Advancing the ignition at max rpm is not likely to gain much without any other mods. If 10hp was possible, then that's a 10% power boost & there'd be timing kits on sale all over the place !

 

The standard valves & springs are good for 14,500rpm, so you won't have a problem. They are the same as those used in the RC45. You should be able to replace the Vtec valves with the standard ones, to get a better performing motor. Look up the RC45 cam durations and lift. Standard VFR lift is 8mm in/ex, the race RC45 goes to max 9.5mm in 8.3 ex. I based my cam grind on the standard RC45 with a little extra, so left lift the same & added duration, this lost nothing but picked up 5hp at 10500 rpm on my 5th gen.

 

Who said 10%? I was told by Rapid Bike that the base ignition map is worth another 8% at 5000 rpms over just having a fuel map alone. I doubt there is much peak gain as if you look at the maps there is not much advance on the top end. There are not timing kits for this bike all over the place because this is a touring bike not a sport bike. It's common sense. You can argue with me all you want, I will put her on the dyno with in a few months and test with and with out ignition for you.

 

The reason is that the factory ECU includes the correct amount of advance for standard fuel but only in the higher RPM's many tests have shown that whilst a continuously variable advance seems like the correct setup theoretically, the empirical data shows that 2 settings are enough, one for low speed & one for high.

You guys need to study ic engine design The reason you can add advance at low speed, is because for the noise regs the manufacturers run less advance & also because a slow turning engine under load is more susceptible to knock. At high speed, the engine runs the correct advance. Most engines running a fixed advancer like the actors pro ones gain at the bottom but lose a little or stay flat once the factory ECU advance kicks in at higher RPM's.
The guys that make your kit know this, which is why they taper the extra advance out ! It is what they do for a living, so be careful adding advance at hig rpm.

 

todays motors are factory tuned to work with a lean 14to1 air fuel ratio aimed at economy and better emissions negateing a very conservative timing curve to burn low octane rated fuel with minimal emmisions in mind to meet epa standards (not sound regs).rule of thumb for most hot rodders is to get the ratio into the 12to1 ratio and in order to accomodate the increased fuel ratio a raised ignition curve over stock is then needed. to try and get the best burn possible,engines usually provide the best power at or around 10 to 15 btdc to increase cylinder pressure (increased cylinder pressures = more hp) and have a longer burn cycle with the richer fuel mixture. generally speaking thats right on the threshold of detonation. too much timing you lose power not enough you lose power. its a matter of finding a proper timing curve to burn the added fuel. same aspect with the higher ron fuel it burns slower so you need to give it more advance to better accomodate the power potential the higher octane fuel adds. if you left the timing curves at oem specs wich are designed primarily for emissions purposes you wont gain the power you can with advanceing the timing in small increments to better accomodate the better fuel and make more horsepower. thats why this particular motor was tuned to run on 86 or lower octane. bikes sole purpose being aimed at touring side of the spectrum rather then the sport section. honda has the cbr's for that side of the sport scene. well the cbr has a more aggressive ignition curve and burns the higher RON fuel. the vfrs conservative timing&low octane fuels produce better road manners and smoother power band aimed at the touring side of things. the vfr's ignition total advance isnt aggressive enough to accomodate 93 or higher RON fuels and will see minimal power increases out of running premium grade fuel in stock form. you add premium fuel raise the timing getting it near the edge so to speak on the timing curve you will produce better power. on a side note once you tune it for 93 and above ron fuels you will no longer be able to operate it on 86 and lower fuels without some detonation. idealy onee would want to keep the fuel ratios as close to 14to1 for low speed driving (cruising) and 12to 1 for WOT but yea ive been building and tuning v8 race motors all my life i will admit to not being as knowledgable on bike motors as i am with v8s but the same timing principles needed to produce more power still apply to the bike motors. but everyones entitled to there own opinions as to what will work best. it boils down to distinguishing what works best for your application. honda tuned the motor for 86 ron im retuning it for 93+. and ive probabably spent more time under the hoods of vehicles on a daily basis in 1 years time then most people spend in there lifetime.

 

ive seen data on the other site were a member done this mod on his bike and had negative dyno run results, but that was primarily do (in my opinion) to the increased venturi diameter of the stacks slowing down air velocity. usually a smaller venturi diameter increases and speeds up air velocitys but according to his dyno charts i seen he primarily lost power in the lower rpm range but gained more power in the upper rpm range do to (in my opinion again) the engines ability to gulp more air with the bigger venturis in the upper rpms. i think according to his data he lost in the neighborhood of 1 to 2 HP down low thru a certain rpm range but produced more in the upper rpms. his mods were primarily slip on cannister and PC3 and k&n, the basic mods people do. with the bigger venturis you will basically be tradeing the low rpm power for the increased upper rpms power. small exchange i guess. 60ft times may suffer but trap speeds should pick up. launch a little harder to make up for the loss down low usually makes up for it. on another note tho the other poster on that sight did not install the hardware you just got done installing either so the increased timing curve may more then make up for the low rpm loss of the increased venturi diameter not seeing overly huge low rpm figures but im sure with an opened up (modded) airbox the larger venturi will net you more power up top then he yielded on his dyno runs. the new crossrunner honda with the 800 has a slightly taller venturi then the 5ht and 6th gens and according to the data it sped up air velocity and gave it more bottom end grunt. i was thinging of going that route on mine or just shimming my stacks up higher to net the same height increase as the newer 800. but like i said according to his posted dyno run comparison of before and after he did net higher HP, and thats always a good thing lol

 

oh theres plenty of mods planned internally. im also going with added duration and lift on both intake and exhaust. i figure if gonna have the cams welded and reground i just as well add the lift also. rather then increase valve diameter im spinning the valves on the laith and undercutting the stems 15% to no more then a max 20% such as manley does with there stainless race flow series valves they sell. and finish em up with a swirl polish and thermo coating. heads will get the standard thermo coating procedure. valve to piston clearances will be checked and flycut if necessary. block will be decked and trued if needed. small compression jump from deck shave. (closer you get to zero deck height = increased efficiency) pistons coated both thermo and skirts for wear protection. the standard blueprinting procedures. will have a fresh motor to put in possibly this next coming winter and still be able to drive and thrash current motor in bike as desired. the project motor has less miles (12000) then what im currently driving. (the wrecked bikes motor) verified mileage myself before purchasing project motor.

 

had to shell out to much money in different venues but will be ordering mine for sure on this coming monday. quickshifter will more then likely be a later add on with machine shop costs and usual bills consuming my checks. but luckily being divorced i can now spend my money how i see fit!! lol

 

in reference to the cbr's ignition timing maps having little to no advance on the graphs upper rpm's is primarily do to its mechanical advance being higher then the vfr's and maxed out already with its slightly higher total advance built into it. that also is an indicator that the vfr's ignition total advance is a substantially lower amount then the cbr's by showing more advance put in by map provided on the chart via electronic means by the tuning software to compensate for the lame (lower) total timing curve the vfr has versus the cbr mechanical advance plate.
i was going to originally utilize the lighter weight springs the cbr use and elongnate the mechanical plates slots to give the vfr more total advance till you found this tuning software. (same principal as GM HEI distributors mechanical advance alterations via assortment of lighter to more stiffer rated springs to custom tailor mechanical advance for your needs)
referance ONLY as to what i meen>>>>>> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g5212

 

Trust me when I say this, the bike lost no bottom end torque. I did not do any porting below the butterflies or to the heads. No air velocity was lost through the bottom half of the throttle bodies or cylinder heads. All I did was clean everything up on the way into the throttlebodies. I do not believe you would get anything out of this unless you have a full exhaust, open air box, and pipercross air filter. But I do believe once this is all done, that the advanced timing brings a lot of low end torque and the velocity stacks and cleaning up adds a considerable amount up top.

 

Yesterday my friend and I went for an all day ride. He has a dead stock mint 2006 cbr600rr. This bike was a little faster than mine up top last month.
We did various roll ons from around 40-80.
In 6th gear I would walk away from him.
In fifth I would walk away.
In fourth I would walk away a little quicker.
In third it was more like a jog.
In second I would literally run away from him.
We did high speed and high rpm roll ons as well. Every time the Veefer would just walk away.
Towards the end of the day I started to get a little generous and was actually starting to feel bad. I gave him a second or two head start from high way speed at high rpms, and literally reeled him in and jogged by before having to shut her down. Nothing has changed with his bike, its stock, garaged and driven on weekends or down time. He was blown away and said, "Damn the VFR is fucking Fast now!"

I am going to try and make it to the track tonight. My best time so far is 11.2 at 120mph. 2 weeks ago I ran an 11.3 at 119. If I am trapping above 122 tonight I will be a happy camper and hopefully have some numbers to give you guys instead of just running my mouth.

Oh and the Best part is, everything was recorded on his go pro. I am not sure how good of an idea it would be to post it up on here legality wise but I can't wait to watch all the videos. Hopefully you can't make out my plate.

 

oh i definitely dont doubt the ignition advance woke this bike up!!! in my aftermarket ignition modifications (reflashing) and cold air kit installations at my work weve never EVER experienced a HP or TQ drop, always solid gains. albeit these mods mentioned are v8 car and truck motors do to dealership constraints. but know ANY motor has hidden potential.

 

Gear by gear rollons are pointless, the VFR has 180cc & 10ft/ibs advantage ove the 600 & they are geared for the same terminal velocity (approx 155mph) so the 600 in any gear even with its lighter weight is always pulling a poor ratio by comparison.

The free gear/rpm rollons are more like it & match my findings, my VFR will out drag every 600 I've come across on the road. The drag strip times may be slightly better for the 600's at drag strips but those are not real world scenarios & from a standstill the weight of the VFr tells at the drag strip. I hope to get some times with mine when the weather finally warms up ! The VFR is better than most people give it credit for, which is fine by me, as it then surprises them, like the guy on a BMW K1300 last year, who was surprised that no matter how hard he tried he could not lose me one a fast open cross country road

Keep up the good work, can't wait for some dyno figures.

 

yea untill i get my tuning software im currently running a switchable homemade (2 air intake temp sensors wired in) 1 relocated back by ecm to get it away from engine heat in order to fool the ecu into thinking the motors still in warm up mode and keeping it in warm up modes slightly advanced preloaded ecu ignition curve all fuel injected motors use. basically i did for 12 dollars worth of wiring and a spare automotive sensor that had comparable resistance readings duplicating what the 80$ ebay ignition kit plug in modules do by fooling the ecu and the similar bazzaz module if im thinking of the correct item i read about do. theres a noticable power gain with this mod i made, but wont be utilizing it when i install the new software you have.

 

Mohawk you are correct in that those in gear roll ons do not say much usually, except that we did all the same roll ons last month and we were neck and neck. Also last month he would walk away from me on high speed and high rpm pulls. Before, if he got the jump on me, I could not catch him, and he would eventually start pulling away. Its not even close any more.

 

ived noticed similar results just from PC5 & auto tune, header and carbon fiber exhaust can, gear change, and rest of mods i currently made the 600rr here were i live he was quite suprised telling me this was the 1st vfr800 to have ate him up bad and wanted to know what the hell i done to it. or my brothers liter KZ1000 cant even keep up either. and his KZ beat my old v65 magna i previously owned also.
dont have much for track use here so every bike i own its modified for straight line performance primarily.

 

I just talked Lenny at Rapid Bike. It seems that they are fresh out of stock and I got one of the last ones for a while. I guess they're shipping them out as fast as they're being built over in Italy. Sorry for the bad news sorry guys, I guess I got lucky on that one. If only I could get that lucky with a Two Brothers Racing Header.

 

yea i also called this am and he had me submit a dry order as he called it, were he takes my shipping info and contacts me for payment when what he has on order arrive. said to me with sandy he had to submit damage claims and restock. said what he had available he had to ship them out on a sudden surge in business on my particular item number also. oh well at least im on the list to be contacted in 2 weeks is what he estimated.