2000 VFR R/R Question

I have checked through the forum to do a little research and tested out the R&R on my bike but I have a question about the voltage at idle. Here is a bit of background info on the tests I have already performed. The bike was up to normal temperature at time of testing as I had just come back from a short ride. The battery is new as of May 2012 and I think the R&R was changed by the previous owner. The previous owner has also attached a cooling fan to the existing R & R but since I can not find any markings on the R & R, I am not sure what model it is (ie. stock Honda unit or upgraded unit). None of the connections seem to badly discolored or scorched and are packed with a clearish type of grease (I would assume di-electric grease).

Battery Condition - 12.69 V (not running)

Battery Voltage at:

• Idle - 12.46 V slowly increased to 12.76 V after about 30 seconds (idle approx 1100 RPM)
• 3000 RPM - 14.21 V (Steady)
• 5000 RPM - 14.22 V (Steady)

Oddly enough if I picked the idle up to just 1600-1800 RPM the reading increased to 13.7 Volts

Stator Check (bike not running) - disconnected the R & R and checked resistance on all three yellow wires on the stator side of the connection

• Wire A to B - 0.01 Ohms
• Wire B to C - 0.01 Ohms
• Wire A to C - 0.01 Ohms
• Wire A to Ground - No reading
• Wire B to Ground - No reading
• Wire C to Ground - No reading

Stator Check (bike running) - R & R still disconnected and checked AC Voltage coming from stator at idle and 5000 RPM

• Wire A to B at idle - 17.24 VAC
• Wire B to C at idle - 17.24 VAC
• Wire A to C at idle - 17.25 VAC
• Wire A to B at 5000 rpm - 61.25 VAC
• Wire B to C at 5000 rpm - 61.23 VAC
• Wire A to C at 5000 rpm - 61.24 VAC

After reading through various posts on the subject it seems that just about everyone suggests that at idle speed the battery connection should be reading a minimum of mid 13 VDC and remain steady.

Since my reading at the battery is 12.46 VDC and over 30 seconds it slowly rises to a max of 12.76 VDC at idle should I be looking at replacing the R & R on my bike??? I am sure that ordering a replacement unit for the bike is certainly a good idea, but I am not sure if the R & R is actually faulty or not. Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure if any one can identify the unit in the pictures but I would like to find out what kind of unit is already on the bike if anyone can tell..

 

You should do the R/R test with battery fully charged. Should be 13v or close to it.By starting undercharged battery everything else is skewed.
I would just replace that piece of shit R/R even with fan.
Read this thread.Must!
http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gene...how-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.html

You have the original R/R stock which notoriously famous to fail.Could be at its last leg.Replace (Mosfet type) before it fries the stator.Read the link in the thread.Me and Mello Dude spend lot of effort putting together all the info you need.

 

Thanks for the reply Rubo. Though I did not charge the battery just prior to the test, I hooked the battery up to my battery charger just after to check it's status, and the charger showed the battery to be at 98%. The charger is set to trickle charge the battery over night and I will recheck the results in the morning. Thanks for the advice.

I have checked out your thread and I think I may go ahead with the Compu-Fire unit. Doing electrical upgrades is not exactly one of my best talents but I think it will certainly prevent any failures in the future.

 

Mello Dude installed CF unit and the thread has lots of photos,pointers etc.Its not hard to install.If you got questions I am sure he can help.

 

That's a great set of data and very thorough approach.

It looks like everything is okay with the stator and RR. Don't sweat the 1100 rpm idle voltage because the system is working properly and you don't ride around at idle. Unless you have a brand new battery you will never get 13.7 at 1100 rpm idle because the electrical loads are greater than the output of the alternator at that speed. Unplug your headlight if you want to see it go higher.

What's the age of your battery? They are consumable items that wear over time and number of discharge cycles and don't last forever. As a battery ages it's voltage decays and you can't make an old battery perform like a new one even if you charge the hell out it. You might want to check the output voltage of that battery tenderizer, they are poor excuse low-cost voltage regulators that boil and cook batteries above 14.4 volts.

 

An R/R can't provide the required voltage, if the input is too low. In your case, the output of the stator is only 17V at idle. You need closer to 20V. I would raise the idle a few 100 rpms, so that the R/R can provide 13V min. If you get stuck in heavy traffic, the draw from the fan can quickly eat up our small battery reserve.

 

I was having some issues with mine as well in the same area and replaced my R/R with a Mosfet from Roadstercycle.com, the guy builds the kit to your make and model and has it out the next day..Great product for 130 dollars...I only had to shave off the stud do to its size but the bike is running better than it has in a while...my r/r was slowly dying..

 

this was the kit i installed, he offer videos and even in person instruction if you are having issues...

 

Thanks szkimn2001Out of curiosity, is the kit you mentioned a plug and play item?? I had highly considered the Compu-Fire upgrade, but the thought of chopping in to the factory wiring harness bothers me a little. Electrical testing is one thing but major modifications are a little more daunting, not to mention I don't have all the required tools. My tool box has a fair number of tools but my electrical equipment is sadly lacking as far as anything more useful than the Wal-Mart brand wire strippers and butt connectors. The Wal-Mart stuff might be ok for fixing my 5 year olds R/C toys but not so much for the bikes wiring harness.

 

All you need for this is a soldering iron.. no tapping into the harness..there could be an issue with the harness itself so this is a direct route bypassing it. This is simply soldering the connections and plugging in and he also offers a kit pre soldered for a few dollars more..You can actually call him with any other questions as well..The fact that it actually bypasses the harness was prime for me do to the age of the bike and the chance of a fried wire somewhere in the harness.

 

this is the kit pre soldered and for 10 dollars more well worth it and again it is Roadstercycles.com

 

Thanks again for all the options and opinions, and thanks especially to both Rubo, Mello Dude, and szkimn2001 for your help. Special thanks to Rubo and Mello Dude for the previous post how-fix-common-regulator-stator-failure as I used this post to test the regulator and stator in the first place. It is unlikely I would have known how to perform the tests in the first place and would likely have wound up taking it to the dealer and spending a pile of money to get to where I am now. As it is, all I had to spend was $40 on the multi-meter and follow your (Rebo and Mello Dude) instructions.

It would seem that with either the Roadster Cycle or the Compu-Fire option I will have to splice a connector to stator wire connection, and both installs bypass the factory connections to the harness and hook directly to the battery, is this correct?? If so, which route do you think would be the better way to go. Currently my bike has over 61,000 km's (35,000 miles) and I plan on keeping it for some time, so I would like to make sure I go with the longest lasting alternative and the one that puts the least demands (if that is the right word) on the electrical system.

Mello Dude

I read your vfrd article (all of it, and it was extremely well done) on the install of the Compu-Fire system and I was wondering how long ago you completed it, how many miles have you logged since, and does it seem to working ok. I have a friend who works as a mechanic for my local BMW dealership, and he is the GO TO guy at the dealership when it comes to a BMW with an electronic gremlin issue, so I'm certain I could enlist his help with the install. I certainly don't mind spending the extra dollars and time on the install so long as I don't have to worry about it again. It also seems from the article that the Compu-Fire install places a lower demand on the Stator thus making it last longer and since the bike is already higher in mileage (peanuts for a Honda) I was wondering if this would be the better choice.

 

Every now and then this site actually comes through with something useful, rather than a tutorial on how to sneak up on sheep.

 

Whoa the BS meter is pegging out!

Timeout! Somebody has been blowing smoke up your ass. There is no series regulator available for a permanent magnet alternator (the type used in motorsickles) no matter what kind of BS gets slung by the harley doods.

There is "shunt" regulation using either diodes, thyristors, SCRs,
http://vfrworld.com/photos/data/1255/rectumfier_specs.jpg
fig.2
or transistors (FETs or MOSFETs) fig.3
to switch the current to ground in order to regulate the voltage, or there is "open" regulation using SCRs to interrupt the alternator output before it reaches the rectifier stage. fig.4

A "series" regulator is the type used in automobiles in which the magnetic field of the alternator is generated by an electric current in the rotor winding. This current can be turned on and off as needed to regulate the output voltage and is supplied thru a SLIP RING BRUSH SET.

Unless your alternator has a set of brushes there is no way to use a "series" regulator--it makes no sense.

 

ZZ don't feel bad cutting stock plugs (stator to R/R) since this is poorly designed plugs often resulting in burning and melting.
I have no experience with Compu-fire. I installed 2005 used Mosfet Yamaha R1 regulator with beefy wiring and fuse box.I installed Metri-pack 630 fuse box
My cost came under $150. I did buy good soldering tool since I believe that is a must have.
R/R Connectors
great wiring straight to battery with a fuse holder plus 2 fuses 1extra $25 nice deal.
Part A - the Battery Connection
FH012/010 Connectors with Leads
Part B Stator $15
Don't need anything else.
You can buy R1 new regulator new from Roadstercycle-Index for $100
I prefer metri pack 630 connections which the link I provided.
You can easily install this.Buy decent soldering gun and you are good to go.

 

I just installed the Roadstercycle super mosfet kit (the one that is basically all soldered up minus the stator wires) and it was pretty simple. Taking my time and really doing it right took about 2.5 hours. Only mod was drilling a different hole for one of the RR mounting bolts (I rotated the left side up a bit) and grinding down a little on the left, top few fins so it fit under the plastic cowl. Super easy really. I also chose to just solder direct to the stator wires (had to solder in 3 wire extensions).. Used heat shrink tubing on all connections and electrical tape and wire loom tubing on everything to protect it. Getting 14.13 volts at 5K and with my idle at 1400 rpm's (I like it there ) I get 14 volts give or take. Now I know I can ride worry free.

Oh and the stock power connector that gets unplugged from the stock reg just gets taped up real well and ty-wrapped out of the way.

Good luck!