Natural Selection

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by NorcalBoy, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. JTC

    JTC New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Watts, CA
    Map
    Havcar would have clicked Thanks for this post...
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #21
  2. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,194
    Likes Received:
    895
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Desert Southwest
    I think the "lighting yourself on fire protest" would have done a lot more for his cause.......





    ...
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #22
  3. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Colorado Front Range
    Map
    True. There's no denying the irony
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #23
  4. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,383
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Delaware
    Map
    Again, I see the same tired non-logical argument being flashed out here and every other board about mandatory helmet laws.

    Funny how everyone has such a short memory as the same rhetoric was used by citizens when mandatory seat belt laws were being debated before they were passed. “Government isn’t going to tell me what to do”. “Seat Belts first, then they’ll ban cars and we’ll have to take the bus!” Or instead of me quoting from the days of old just replace ‘helmet’ with ‘seat belt’ in some of you all’s posts.

    So what has happened with those evil seat belts being mandatory by big evil government? Outside of lives being saved none of the BS that was predicted. If helmet laws were in every State all we would be doing is wearing helmets…big deal. I’d actually bet money some of the heat would come off our hobby as people might actually start surviving some of these accidents. Motorcycles and us motorcyclists are called “murdercycles or donorcyclists” by many. I don’t know about you guys/gals but those nicknames by nature indicate riders don’t take this hobby seriously.

    And tink, I’m very disappointed someone like you would state people have a right to be stupid. Well hell brother, lets repeal those DUI laws while we walk down that road because I have a right to wrap myself around a tree or that family in the mini-van.


    BZ
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #24
  5. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Colorado Front Range
    Map
    Difference with DUI is that they have a habit of wiping out complete innocent families in their own mini-van while surviving themselves.

    I ridicule anyone who doesn't wear helmets, gloves, boots....

    I don't believe the govt needs to be involved in personal choices. Society and peer pressure should dictate behavior. What's "cool" already changes fashion and if not wearing a helmet was un-cool, then people would behave differently. I already look around and most of the sport bike and touring bike crowd wear helmets. The cruiser crowd largely does not. I have better things for my elected representatives to be worrying about.
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #25
  6. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,383
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Delaware
    Map
    The fact that not wearing a helmet DOES affect others, albeit in a slightly different way than DUI, and yet you fail to see this is scary.

    BZ
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #26
  7. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Colorado Front Range
    Map
    I see that affects others, and, as you said, in a different way.

    Therefor it's different and not the same argument.
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #27
  8. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    15,040
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I'm going to be like camo and start carrying an AK47 and a machete in case I get jumped by one of those Amish harleydoods.
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #28
  9. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Colorado Front Range
    Map
    :spit: :pound:

    priceless
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #29
  10. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,383
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Delaware
    Map
    Just like DUI, took 30 years for people to realize it’s a bad idea to drink and drive and embrace the law.

    Just like seat belt laws, took 30 years for the same.

    Now it’s texting, talking on the cell phone and might as well throw the ABATE ‘helmets are bad’ ideology on the wagon as the obvious is going to take another 30 years an a lot of deaths before it’s taken seriously.

    BZ
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #30
  11. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Colorado Front Range
    Map
    non sequitur again.

    DUI and texting have the direct ability to end the lives of innocent individuals who did not chose to drink or text.

    I don't agree with government enforced seat belt laws and believe it should be society and peer pressure that influence the behavior of others. I wear a seatbelt and I wear gear. Not because the gov't tells me to but because I value my life and have this fear of pain - therefor I do what I can to minimize the chances of it.

    To be honest and fair, gov't did score a win with vehicle safety laws and airbags etc. I believe that the free market and consumer demand could have and would have done the same in time. While gov't mandates brought this to bare faster, I don't believe gov't is the answer to all our problems and has FAILED more than it's succeeded.
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #31
  12. vfourbear

    vfourbear New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    2,519
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Louisville, KY - Under my tinfoil hat
    Map
    Like none of you guys has never ever ever even once in your life ridden without a helmet......
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #32
  13. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,383
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Delaware
    Map
    "Government scores a win with vehicle safety laws"...so a motorcycle is not a vehicle Tink?

    Is it me folks or am I the one missing something here?

    Scotty, beam me up.

    BZ
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #33
  14. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,383
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Delaware
    Map
    Shit bear thats all you got!? You just wake up or something? LOL!

    BZ
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #34
  15. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Colorado Front Range
    Map
    Maybe the font color was wrong and it blended in with the background color...

    no one is telling you that you can't wear a helmet bubba

    They might be telling you that it's not cool to wear one on your Harley. So I guess if you have your eyes on a Harley and want to be cool then you might have to make a choice between being a stud and valuing your life.
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #35
  16. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Colorado Front Range
    Map
    Let me say further, with regard to gov't having a win on vehicle safety laws (airbags etc.) and tie it in with DUI and Texting.....

    My passengers in my cage didn't have the ability to choose what car and safety features I purchased. Just like the innocent victims of DUI and texting crashes didn't make the choice to drink or be distracted. So gov't laws/mandates stepped in and made things safer for those who weren't given the opportunity to make the choice (passenger airbags, infant safety seats, etc..)
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2011


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #36
  17. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    3,383
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Delaware
    Map
    So what you are saying is government mandated safety features in cars, trucks, etc. is an acceptable form of governmental control, but helmet laws, that were once the law in many states, should not be brought back because that level of risk should remain a “choice”?

    BZ
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #37
  18. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Colorado Front Range
    Map
    Not really. Saying the government was right "this" time and therefor must be wiser and allowed to make all our personal decisions is flawed. There are parallels that can be drawn between vehicle safety laws protecting innocent people from the decisions of others like DUI and texting laws are designed to do and thus I score it a win.

    Yes, I believe the level of risk on a motorcycle should be one's personal choice. I agree with helmet laws for minors and minor passengers.

    Bubba - What makes the government qualified to decide "what" level of risk is acceptable for YOU? What happens when guberment decides that all two wheel conveyance is too risky regardless of gear? Where is the line drawn? What happens when government says you must wear full leathers? So what if you're going three blocks across a residential neighborhood at 15mph to the corner gas station..... Why don't you feel confident that you can make these choices for yourself?

    Once we solve the helmet debate and force everyone to be safe we can move on skin cancer. Exposure to direct sunlight is shown to drastically increase the risks of skin cancer. Maybe the government should have a law that everyone wears a hat outdoors? Oh, I got it, they should also require all bare skin to have sunscreen and the sunscreen police can run around testing everyone's skin to make sure they're in compliance. That might be too expensive to enforce. It would be easier if we just had a law that there's no exposed skin allowed outdoors and then the regular police would have an easier time with enforcement.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2011


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #38
  19. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Colorado Front Range
    Map
    Auto Erotica: It¿s time to ban the motorcycle - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

    [​IMG]

     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #39
  20. Lgn001

    Lgn001 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Russian River by Ocean, CA
    Map
    Is safety equipment, in whatever category we choose to discuss, a good thing? Yes it is. Is choosing to use said equipment a good decision? Yes it is. Is it OK for small groups of people to decide what rules should govern the majority without the majority getting a vote? No, it isn't.

    Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I will say that "the majority", as in the greater number of the population, don't really seem to be very good at arriving at decisions of any kind, good or bad... :smile:
     


    This site may contain affiliate links for which VFRworld may be compensated
    #40
Related Topics

Share This Page