First ticket on the VFR - Advice?

I'm probably going to get a laser Jammer and radar Laser detector.

 

Yep, all refusing to sign does is give the officer the right to arrest you because you won't promise to appear, if he wanted to.

They may have stopped getting signatures there but more than likely he just forgot to ask.

 

I wonder if asking the cop for ten bucks for an autograph might work? Or, smashing your hand with a sledge hammer while he is writing the ticket.

 

Y'all need to be nicer to them there Leos when they pull you over. I don't pretend to know why, but I've been pulled twice a year for the last three yrs for over exuberance on the VFR, at some silly speeds too - 83 in a 55 springs to mind. No tickets and no yelling. Just a quiet request to slow down "a bit" and, "Have a nice day."

So -Try and keep your hi-jinks to relatively empty stretches of road, and if you see a police car coming towards you hit the brakes hard and fast. Unless of course there's no room for the guy to turn around easily - the next decision is up to you.

Please have a valid drivers license and registration or you're likely going straight to pokey, and have them immediately available

SMILE! A LOT! And I mean a I REAL smile, not a snide and cocky grin

Stop the bike and turn it off immediately and put your feet on the ground.

Take off your helmet and gloves immediately and take the key out of the ignition.

ALWAYS keep your hands visible to the cop - I've gone so far, depending on my terminal speed when seen, as too raise my hands to shoulder height and sit there until the cop is standing in front of the bike.

If you need to put your hand inside jacket or pants to get your license and registration out ASK if it's OK to do so, and always ask if you need to get off the bike.

Don't say anything other than "Hi" until spoken to, look like your a little worried and SMILE!

Answer questions politely.

Don't answer, "No sir, I don't know why you pulled me over", to the obvious inquiry. Those guys aren't stupid. Make your answer a question, "Going too fast?", and try your best to look innocent and unthreatening.

Blame the bike, "I'm sorry, it's just so hard to know sometimes exactly how fast it's going."

I've found it useful to minimise the distance of my ride. ie. Instead of saying, "I was heading for Alaska", try "I was just going to - insert name of town/relatives house/scenic lookout within five or ten miles here - "I haven't had the bike out in a couple of weeks and I just wanted a quick ride."

And when he lets you go say "Thank You" like you mean it. And if you haven't read the name on the badge yet ask, and then thank him again by name.


I'm a pretty ugly looking middle aged guy, so all you cute girls and Brad Pitt look alikes may not fair so well.

Mileage May Vary for the rest of you.

 

Same as VFRChick, I run an Escort 8500X on my motorcycle (set to Auto mode) at all times, but my setup differs from hers in that I have the detector plugged into my Autocom system which is hard-wired rather than Bluetooth, and the detector is housed in a detachable waterproof shell, so I have no problems with heavy rain, etc. (Check out my photo gallery for pics.)

For many years I've used Escort detectors in my SUVs, the most recent version being Escort's new Redline radar/laser detector which is in my 2011 GMC Acadia Denali. (FWIW, in the U.S., radar/laser detectors are legal in all states except for Virginia, as well as in Washington DC, and all U.S military bases. Canada is another story.)

Echoing VFRChick's comments, I too have found that using a detector over the course of many years has paid for the initial cost of the detector (as well as the price of my motorcycle's Autocom system) many times over by avoiding speed traps, and they've long been a standard, must-have accessory for my SUVs and motorcycles.

This is undoubtedly going to raise some controversy with those VFR members who for example, are either active-duty or retired LEOs, but before I get flamed, I will say that in general, I'm usually not much of a speeder, and I rarely ride like a hooligan. That said, after many years of using these devices, I have come to appreciate them more as "defensive" rather than "offensive" tools, if you will. These devices are so sensitive to police radar that they often sniff out police radar from several miles away, and in general, when they go off, slow down (particularly if you are in unfamiliar territory), even if you don't immediately see either a stationary or a moving patrol car. In fact, you often never see the source of the alert, and quite often it may be nothing more than a non-LEO source of false-positive radiation such as an automatic door opener at a nearby Home Depot.

For those who may not be well familiar with how to best use these devices and interpret their signals, there is a ton of highly useful information (as well as misinfromation) on the Web, so do some homework before you strap one on and venture forth, because there is much to learn about traffic radar and laser/lidar, including the following:

1) Unlike the old "Fuzz Buster" days in the 1970's and early 80's when patrol cars had only X-band radar which, when switched on, sent out a constant radar signal or "beacon" that was easily detected from afar by the likes of "Fuzz Busters", police radar has since undergone a tremendous technological evolution in an effort to defeat radar detectors, and manufacturers of these detectors have strived to keep abreast and one step ahead.

2) As a solution to the old "always on" traffic radar, more modern police traffic radar units feature "Instant-On" radar in which the cop's radar is switched off, silent, and it's only activated by the most intelligent LEOs with a very brief instant on/off pulse that's sufficient to nail your ass once you enter the strike zone. This is analogous to taking a quick photo of your speed, one that could get you busted. Gotcha! These guns typically employ K-band, Ka-band, the increasingly less common X-band, the somewhat controversial "POP" mode, as well as radar/lidar (laser) guns.

3) Highly competent and sensitive detectors such as the Escort 8500X and Escort Redline will easily detect these brief bursts of radar of one or more bands from as far as several miles, depending on the local topography. I've long found that the most savvy LEOs lay-off the instant-on switch and only push the instant-on button just long enough when they are pretty sure that they have their quarry well within their guns sites, and they can nail you but good. On the other hand, bored and/or stupid cops often tend to play with their instant-on tool way too much, and by doing so they are unwittingly and repeatedly sending out radar pulses which give away their presence from miles away. These radar signals will reflect off of many surfaces, rather like visible light. At any rate, whenever your detector picks them up, no matter how weakly, slow down.

4) A warning about "X-band" radar: Do some Web research and you will likely find a number of articles claiming that X-band is pretty much antiquated and obsolete technology among most modern law enforcement agencies. Indeed, the makers of the Escort detectors (formally Cincinnati Microwave in Ohio) have, with their more recent detectors, included a menu option which allows the user to entirely turn off the detection of X-band signals. Well, at least here in Ohio, which is among the most notorious states in the U.S. for speed traps, it is quite evident that the Ohio State Highway Patrol must've read that paragraph in the Escort's owner manual, because to this day, I have found that OSHP patrol cars routinely use not only X-band, but instant on-off X-band at that! Duh! Bottom line: When driving or riding through Ohio, keep yer X-band on.

5) Laser/Lidar (Light Detection and Ranging): Currrently based on infrared light, this threat is the most hard to detect from afar because unlike radar, which casts a wide band, a laser beam is much more focused, pinpoint, stealthy, and much less prone to any stray reflections that would give away its location well before entering the kill zone. Laser is also instant on-off, but it currently has one major disadvantage and give-away: Unlike radar, which can nail you from a moving car, a LEO shooting a laser gun must always be stationary. Speed traps which are shooting laser are easily identified (if you're paying attention ahead) by a stationary police car or police motorcycle, in which the officer is seen pointing and looking through a hand-held device which looks rather like a small video camera, and there is often a chase-car somewhere nearby. Look for laser equipped LEOs sitting in highway mediums, roadside, or perched atop highway bridges and overpasses.

It's also worth noting that while the laser beam leaves the gun at a beam-width which may be narrower than a pencil, by the time that beam hits oncoming traffic, it has widened to a very wide radius, and the beam is still prone to stray reflections from a wide array of local reflective surfaces. Also, illuminated red tail lights may create false positives.

 

I'm still looking for those lawyers that get speeding tickets reduced to parking tickets. They seem to have dropped off the radar.

 

Spectre is pretty much right on the money with his post. Except the last comment about the tail lights. I have never heard of or experienced that. Red light from and incandescent lamp of LED is not the same as the IR beam being emitted from a speed reading laser gun.

Now about the legalities of laser/radar detectors in Canada. This time of legislation is a Provincial matter which differs to some degree from province to province. Normally such laws as moving violations are consistent throughout North America for that matter. But issues such as mufflers, window tint, coloured lights and radar detectors differ. Here in BC they are legal.

But be very careful with Laser Jammers here in Canada. While in BC they are not illegal to possess and use, the moment your jammer causes the police laser to be non functional, regardless of how short a period of time this is, then you have interfered with that officers ability to do the job he is sworn to do. That my friend, here in Canada is called "Obstruct Peace Officer" , Section 129 of the Criminal Code of Canada, which carries a maximum penalty of two years in the crow bar hotel. (cough cough...like that ever happens here) But it is a criminal conviction regardless of the sentence. And a competent LEO can tell by the readings and reactions from his laser, that the car he pointed the beam at, has a jammer. Jammers are typically on the outside of a car. In other words, in plain sight, so no warrant is needed. That whole issue has stood the test of court right up to the Supreme court of BC. I don't know if it has made its way to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Personally I did not care if people had these devices. Hell my brother in law has always had one and he and I get along very well. But if you had one, and I got you, you were sunk. Now warnings for you bus. You have had many breaks before you got to me. And I must admit. Giving a ticket to someone with a radar detector is like catching and landing a 65 pound salmon. Almost orgasmic....

 

Commercial vehicles cannot have a radar detector. Basically, if it belongs to a company, and you have a detector in it, that is a no-no.

 

False alerts from laser/lidar detectors

Check out the following link: Laser Detector False Alarms
(Please note that although I have posted this link from Valentine, I am not "endorsing" their products. In fact, I once purchased a Valentine 1, and within the next few days I returned it for a full refund, and went back to using Escorts. The point of copying this link is merely to illustrate that, as I said in my last post, laser detectors are indeed prone to false positives from the likes of certain "red" tinted tail and brake lights, and I've experienced this phenomenon firsthand on many occasions. And BTW, Escort has also published facts about this.)

Adding to the above, I would also like to recount the following, which I found to be a conundrum for several years until I finally figured out what was setting off my laser detectors, as well as several friends who noticed the same thing with their detectors...

...I live in the Columbus, OH area, which is ringed by the I-270 outer belt. The Columbus International Airport's radar tower is located just inside of the north-northeast area of this freeway outer belt, very near Hamilton road, near the suburb of Gahanna, OH. When traveling this portion of I-270, the airport's radar tower and constantly rotating radar dish is quite obvious, since it sits very close to the beltway.

Anyway, for many years I've found that whenever I've driven past this radar tower (day or night, even in broad daylight) my Escort's laser detector would suddenly begin screaming out and displaying "Laser", and for the longest time I couldn't figure out what the hell was causing this. I knew it was most likely a false infrared source coming from somewhere in that vicinity, but what was the source?

Well then, one night I was driving by the same location, and I happened to notice that afixxed to the airport's constantly spinning radar array is a constantly illuminated, bright RED lamp! To the human eye, this source of near infrared light is hardly noticeable during the day, but the laser detector was "seeing" it and calling out a false alert. In order to prove my hunch, I began covering the detector's "eye" with my hand as I passed through this zone, and voila, the false laser alerts would not occur.

I will also mention that just as "Valentine" described, I have found that my detector is most likely to give a false positive laser alert when in stop 'n go traffic, I've pulled up behind vehicles which are equipped with those bright "Center High Mounted Stop Lamps". In my experience, this doesn't often occur, but it does happen. In addition, I have also, on rare occasions, noticed false laser alerts from sources such as bright red traffic lights as well as red railroad signals and red crossing lights.

If you wanna play games and make your laser/lidar detector go off in your garage, just grab your handy, red-colored, laser pointer that's used for Power Point presentations, etc, and the detector should go off, big time.

*************

FWIW, I recently talked my way out of a ticket while driving through a rural, one-stoplight town in Delaware County, OH, by pointing out to the officer that he'd pulled over the wrong car (that being mine) because my Escort had picked up on his presence (I said you were using K-band, right?) long before I passed through, and therefore I'm not an idiot and was minding my manners as I came through his turf. He kept looking into the left open window of my vehicle, eyeing the detector, and he had a hard-on. He said Yeah, well if you weren't the one who was speeding, how come you're using that fancy detector? I said that I rely on it to help prevent and fight erroneous traffic arrests (defense, defense). He ended up backing off and gave me only a warning.


On another occasion, I was well on my way out of a tiny Ohio town when my radar detector went off, and I knew that the source was coming from behind me, so I pulled over as he rolled up behind me, and I said much the same things as above. I politely argued that I knew full well that he was shooting Ka-band, and that he had the wrong car. Why the f*ck would I roll in, Hot, when I knew that there's radar ahead? Duh. If a LEO writes me a ticket, and I choose to fight it in traffic court, he/she will have to show up in court, and this is a very inconvenient pain-in-the-ass.

****************

As far as hiring a local lawyer to help you get a ticket reduced or thrown out, the reasoning is that while the attorney fees may be several times the cost of the ticket as well as an increase in your insurance premiums and points on your license over many years, the cost of an attorney may be financially worth it in the long run. But for just a speeding ticket, good luck. On the other hand, if you've been cited for reckless operation or worse, that's another story.

 

What many of us I presume, were seeking an answer to was the statement that in Nevada and Specifically Las Vegas there is an attorney or attorneys that can get a speeding violation reduced to a non-moving parking citation.

Indeed there are attorneys for hire that specialize in defending alleged trafic infractions. I submit that to state that the cost may initially be far less than the imposed fine, not to mention the down the road costs in raised insurance rates ect.

Case in point: See the law in Oregon for exceeding 100 mph. A very bad bust.

One large firm in the Seattle area has on retainer an attorney who does just that to keep the highly paid computer geeks employed by said company out of the slammer and at work. Dudes have some nice rides with two and four wheels.

 

I never found court to be a pain in the ass. Matter of fact, a lot of my court was on my day off. Damned. 4 hours minimum call back at double time. And if I banked the time instead of taking payment, I didn't get taxed on it either. Sux eh?

Personally I cared only a little bit if I won or lost a case. Convicting an offender is not my job. That is what the Justice of the Peace is paid for. My conviction rate on those that disputed my tickets was somewhere in the neighbourhood of 90%. I can live with that. The 10% lost were usually non moving violations or I lost them due to not getting the proper evidence in to court on my evidence in chief.

The few times I got a ticket, I was guilty, and paid the fine. Points are long gone and were never enough to affect my insurance anyways.

 

I wonder why Randy is feeling guilty now? This should be a time for celebration not remorse.

 

in 3/10 I was driving north on I-71 in an Infiniti FX35, and although I had the Escort on, I was totally engrossed with listening to an interview on NPR's Fresh Air, and so I didn't see the Ohio State Highway Patrol Cruiser sitting in the medium about an 8th of a mile ahead, shooting Lidar. I didn't "wake up" until the detector went off, and after I rolled by him (at 65 mph of course) and looked in the rearview mirror, he immediately pulled out and began catching up. Uh-oh.

So, he pulled me over (I was in Richland County, OH), and I had both hands clearly visible on the steering wheel, with my window rolled down as he walked up and politely said that he clocked me doing 83 in a 65 mph zone. I said Yes sir, that sounds about right, sorry about that, then handed him my license, registration, and proof of insurance. He wrote me a ticket for $130.00, said have a nice day and please slow down. I said Thank you, sir, I will.

A few days later I sent in the signed ticket with a check for the amount owed, and chalked it up to experience. The LEO had nailed me fair-and-square, I was stupid for not paying attention, so that was that. I had no desire to hire an attorney in Mansfield (county seat of Richland County) in an effort to get it reduced. I deserved the ticket, and quite frankly it was a good lesson. End of story.

 

FYI... the attorney here in Vegas that gets our tickets reduced to a parking ticket does it for free for those of us on motorcycles, because he himself is a biker.... so there is no additional charge to me. As stated though, I DO still have to pay the original fine for speeding... that is NOT reduced. I DO however, have another friend who is a metro cop here, and he will be taking care of my second speeding ticket. That one will be dealt with in what the cops call "family court". He will see the judge directly, and he should be able to get it removed... period... not even a parking ticket, and I may have to pay a fine of about $80.00 to make this happen.

The attorney advertises his FREE services on a local forum here.... Ticket Fixing. Procedure..

 

Nice try. What this guy is doing is getting the fine reduced not plea bargaining a moving violation to a non-moving violation. Call this guy and he will explain to you what he is doing. Ain't nothin new. I would advise that you do not attempt to bend the facts of your story to benefit your ego. This guy will nail you.

I doubt you have gone through this procedure at all and are operating on hearsay and not fact.

An example: You live in a shack on the end of a long pier over the ocean. You father has told you hundreds of times that the water is 600 feet deep there. One day a friend comes to visit and dives in the water. He comes up and says, "Dude, this water is only three feet deep". Are you the fabricator, or is your father the fabricator or are both of you fabricators?

Age, infanti opus est pari novorum calceorum!

 

WOW BB... I know the facts, its all done i know what I paid and I know what my driving record says. I have nothing to prove so will stop wasting my time on this... Perhaps it is YOU who should know the facts before making accusations.

 

And btw.... The fine was NOT reduced and if you read any of my posts you would know that.

 

Kinda figured you were telling a story rather than actually having the experience. They are not the same thing. I hope someday you will figure that out.

Let us know how this LEO you claim to have in your pocket operates. The attorney you cite is all proper and legal however the question you continue to beg is how any lawyer gets a moving violation of any kind reduced to a non-moving.

Notice too that the attorney you cite makes no guarantee that there will be a dismissal. Show up at his office with a record of several moving violations and he will show you the door. The reason? The magistrate is a smart guy too and he or she will have all that information at hand before a legal decision is rendered. A little advice here and I don't need to even know this attorney. He does not like to lose.

Sorry toots, your story just doesn't wash.

 

Allright BB... You've been right all along... I like to wasre my time on this forum telling assinine stories that dont make any sense at all just to make you guys think.... I made up the lawyer and the link I posted, I dont have any cop friends and heck why not come clean with everything.... Ive never had a ticket in my life, don't own a VFR and for that matter dont even like motorcycles.... Sorry to have wasted everyone's time... Guess I will go terrorize some other forum with fake gibberish and things I know nothing about.... Adios!!

 

Before you run off with God and a red herring lunch you have been trying to feed everyone, could you please share how this reduction of a moving violation to a parking ticket works? Just a smidgen of precedent will suffice. Pretty please.