Carb problems with my 2nd Gen?

"If you really meant no offense by the above statement, I think you should have chosen your words a bit more careful. "

Sorry about that. It's the brain to keyboard to web thing. Yes you can ruin brand new plugs really easy. Doesn't take much to foul then they can trace and they're junk.

There are people on this site that are good at trouble shooting and working on the older bikes. May be if you ask one real nice to help you they will take the time to teach you what you need to know. Yea it's hard to find them sometimes. Mostly by reference from a knowledgeable friend who had good dealings with them. It takes awhile sometimes to find them. It would be nice if they had a good guy badge or something. Or like the one TV commercial where they wear the Super Good Guy Cape:bounce:

Yes, if your petcock is not stopping all that fuel weight from pressing against the needle and with the ethanol gas it sounds like it's getting past the needle. Or like you think it could be the bowl gaskets. If the fuel is on the motor and JUST dripping from the center bottom of the bowl (over flow tube very bottom of bowl) it's then the fuel getting past the needles. If the side of the bowls are wet or fuel stained then it's your bowl gaskets. It's not hard to make your own. Stay away from sealers around those gaskets. Creates more problems sometimes. You should look in to fixing the petcock either way. You should be able to buy the gasket for that still.

"2. Float is getting gas in it somehow. It drops (sinks) lower than the rest."

This is a problem that needs fixed first. Need a new float! That cylinder will run very rich and or fuel will over flow from the bowl over flow tube. That's a must do!! Before anything else. You don't need to static check the fuel height. You need to make sure the floats are set according to the manual and that will set your fuel level correctly for all your internal circuits to work properly like the factory wants. On a stock motor. A modified motor may need a different setting.

As far as the ethanol we all have to live with it and adjust around it. It shouldn't hurt anything in the short run (5yrs or so?) May be, just may be it might in the long run,10+ years. But so far I haven't heard of anything on the serious side besides gunking up circuits if the motor sets like a year or so without stabilizers in it for the most part. There are alway exceptions to everything. But I wouldn't lose any sleep over the ethanol deal. My car and bike will set 6 months with no problems. Using Seafoam or the like once or twice a year might help clean them. Pictures are worth a thousand words. Helps in trouble shooting if someone is helping long distance. Got a digital camera? Plus it's good to take photos of something your taking a part before you do it. Cause there will always be something you forgot how it came a part. Cuts down on head scratching and you'll use less swear words.:yell:

 

AS a mechanic I have seen this type of situation before. It just keeps going down hill.

This is what needs to happen.
#1 take the motorcycle to a dealership and get the valves adjusted properly.
ASK the mechanics"Have you done this type of bike before?" If not, go to one that has the experience.
Make sure to tell the dealership you ONLY want the valves adjusted. Nothing else.
#2 do not worry about the compression check right now.
#3 Make sure the carbs have all new float needles and that the pilot air screws are all the same number of turns.
#4 Put the carbs on and sync them.
#5 The petcock is a separate project. do not throw that into this pile right now.

 

AT this point i think you need a compression test to verify that your coolish cylinder has about the same compression as the rest......just to rule that out as a problem.

Next, yank the carb set, place it on a low platform next to the bike with the same slight downslope toward the front as it sits on the bike, and hook it to the fuel pump. Power up the pump, and observe directly where the drips start, whether at the fuel pipe joints, the vent tubes or overflow from the main jet tube, or the float bowl gaskets.

 

A compression test will reveal there is a problem or not, but why not just adjust the valves FIRST. That may eliminate a problem with the compression of a cylinder.

 

Donald have to disagree with you there. Just because a mechanic has an ASE certification doesn't mean he really knows what he is doing. A lot of ASE certs are kind of the bare minimum knowledge to imply he knows what he's doing. I had my share with some of those yokels. Don't get me wrong some of them with certs are good. But there's a difference when one can just take apart something and put it back together and make it work VS figuring out why it doesn't work correctly in the first place and fixing it right the first time.

There are MC tech schools now. Should be helping the dealers some. If they are willing to pay them.

 

Yes you are right, but at least they did have to pass a test and have basic knowledge of some items. It is a start.

 

Jeez! I have never seen a thread with all the most knowledgeable and senior guys providing some great input. Unfortunately for Slowbird there is some conflicting advice, but it is finally becoming clearer and closer to a consensus for next steps! What an informative thread. There is a lot of experience talking here and I am sure that any one of these paths with any one of these guys will get you there in the end. Two options: 1) Choose one guys advice and follow that through 2) Sift through all this and pick the common pieces of advice and the most common (or logical to you) order of doing them and get to it.

Again, great thread and good luck!

 

Thanks Mike.....and thanks to everyone who is taking the time to read this thread and respond.

Am I reading the Honda Service manual correctly?

it's saying compression numbers should be 199psi plus or minus 28 psi ??

 

Sounds about right except two things.

Battery must be fully charged.
All spark plugs out.


If you get at least 155lbs on all cylinders I would not worry about it.

What you do not want to see is a cylinder that says 50lbs.
It is the eveness between all the cylinders that really matters.

 

Compression test can tell you if you are having valve problems, buy a compression tester and test the cylinders.

 

When you do the compression test, it should be done with throttle wide open for best/accurate results and with a warm engine. Otherwise your only comparing numbers between each other cylinder and not the book value stated for comp test.

 

So here's a quick update:

First off, I don't have a garage or a place to work on the bike. It all has to be done in my driveway and by the time I get off work it's already getting dark. Since the problems began I have had little time to do anything besides pull fairings or check plugs.

I spoke to the guy who worked on my bike and he was as baffled and upset at the situation as I was. After I complained of his work we spoke and I decided to give him a chance to correct his errors. (no charge to me of course)

When he got the bike he found the float with the fuel in it. It had a small crack. He also found the broken Petcock switch. He replaced both parts for me and didn't ask for any $$.

He said he re-check all the work he did and everything looked ok. He ran a compression test and it came up with 145-155.

I got the bike back from him and it seemed a bit difficult to start when it was cold. I rode it home (60+km's) and once, my GF who was tailing me in her car said she saw a bit of smoke come from the bike when I accelerated hard onto the highway.

The bike STILL has a fuel leak. Even the guy said I should switch the petcock to off and try and park the bike as upright as possible. (Gee...thanks)

I took the bike to work this morning. It started fine. While the bike was warming up I noticed the exhaust didn't look to good. When I reved it the exhaust was a bit blackish. (there's no smoke when i start riding it though)
I don't know if the choke is creating an overly rich condition, or if any amount of idling is fouling the plugs.

It does have a funny feeling idle, Bike feels good about 75-80% of the time when riding it. Idle feels odd. Also, when i get on the throttle around 4,000rpm it stutters a bit before it pulls hard.

Pilot screws are 2.5 turns out.

When the bike is in neutral and I release the clutch I can hear and feel a slight noise and vibration. Goes away when I pull the clutch in. Not easy to notice. (Bike has always done that.)

Sooooooo that's where I am as of today. Bike runs ok. Leaks a bit of fuel. I don't have anyone local to take my bike to anymore for carb/valve work.

Oh.....one thing to bring up. The previous owner of the bike said that the Airbox was modified and it had a K&N air filter. Now it does have a K&N Air filter. (it's clean) but the airbox is stock and unmodified.

 

so you are not having problems w/ the bike die'n on ya anymore?
I would think that by adjusting the pilot screws you can tune out the stumble issue.
if you want to tackle this yourself it is not that hard

 

I don't want to tempt fate....but no. It hasn't died on me yet.

The 60+ KM ride back from the "mechanics" place was 95% highway and I had no issues. It sat all day yesterday while it rained and today I rode it 30+kms to work. (city riding) Bike didn't die on me.

Really? I don't know where to start? Do I do this when the bike is warm? On the kickstand and turn them in ever so slightly?


Also.....went to the Honda Dealership. They said you can't buy just the float bowl O-Rings. You have to get the entire kit. (comes with all the gaskets and o-rings....even for the tubes)
Looking at $50 per carb. So Around $200 :frown:

 

You can get gasket sets here for $33 + shipping. Honda Yamaha Suzuki Kawasaki Sea-Doo Can-Am Ski-Doo Motorcycle Parts ATV parts Scooter Parts personal watercraft parts Accessories


You can make your own bowl gaskets. Go to a local good auto parts store. Ask to look in there O-ring box. You can find rubber O-rings the same dia/thickness as your bowl gasket. Take a fuel bowl with you to double check the length you need the dia should just stick up above the bowl edge about 1/32"(1 mm). Buy some super glue. Then take and make one cut in the o-ring. Now you have a length of rubber rod. You will glue the two ends together once it's in the bowl gasket slot. Take one end and start in the middle of a straight area. Put a drop of glue in first corner. press gasket in till it holds. Lay the gasket to the next corner, do not stretch it, drop of glue in corner, press gasket in. Do this around the bowl. Once back to start, cut gasket to meet other end. Glue the ends together. Super glue was made for rubber originally. So it will not come apart. Stick your bowls on.

The O-rings may not be rate for "fuel". Do worry about that. One they don't really set in fuel and it will take at about tens years to rot. Total cost under $10.

 

pilot screw adj.
turn them all in the same amout about a 1/4 turn each untill rpms drop. keep track of how many turns.
then turn them out ( 1/4 turn each ) untill rpm rises. again keep track of how many turns.
so say it was 1 turn in ( from 2-1/2 base line )and rpm drops ( 1-1/2 from fully seated ) and 1 turn out ( from 2-1/2 base line ) and rpm raises you wnat to be 3 turns out. this is with the bike running and warmed up. w/ the V-4 configuration I would say it is safe to set them at 3 and take it for a ride and see if it improves any.

 

Damn shame you are so far away, would love put this to bed for you. If you need any parts let me know, will do what I can.