motorycycle training does not reduce crash risk

Training is obviously a good thing but state farm doesn't give a MSC discount. There rates are still awesome. I pay $34 a month for the VFR and $36 for the RC51! As for the article I'd expect nothing less from the New York Times...They probably just beat the USA Today to the punch with this worthless article:cheersaf:

 

Nice work. And 84% of all stats are made up.

 

I thought it was 86%...

 

If I give you 50 bucks, would you agree that it's actually 87%?

 

Even though I have averaged only 250 miles a month over the last 36 months, i still see folks that have ridden 10's of thousands of miles per year more than I have, attended many more days of advanced training, and yet they still aren't what I would consider a safe or competent rider.

 

Even having been on two wheels on the street before I took my MSF class, I still recieved a wealth of knowledge and gained what I consider BETTER experience on the proper operation of a motorcycle. I strongly reccomend taking the class to all my friends so that they will gain the same knowledge base I have which is an excellent thing to add to and grow from. As many others have said, taking the class dosen't make you a good rider. You have to be competent and WANT to be a good rider. And having some buddies around to smack you upside the head when you're ridin' like a dumbass dosen't hurt either. And shame on NY Times for publishing an article that would say that more training is useless, what a pack of absolute dumbass'!!

Just as an aside, yes Bear, I will take your $50 to agree with you on the 87%, just don't tell anyone I did :whistle::biggrin:

 

Even as we speak government officials are feverishly working with Norcalboy to come up with a competency test that he approves. When completed, there won't be many of us left on this board. Frickin socialist

 

Look at this thread: http://vfrworld.com/forums/anything-goes/29866-lucky-alive.html The crasher took a MSF course and still crashed hm.....

 

That's because the forum is getting ruined by your humor.

 

I'm pretty sure that you just agreed with Norcalboy on something. Just thought I'd point that out in case you didn't really mean it. ( the post on the crasher thread)

 

Haters gotta hate.... It's what they do

 

allow me to clarify, socialists have no money...i am in cahoots with the chinese, those comrades got some dough and they will set the regulations exactly as i see fit. 90% of you will not be able to post to this thread, get a license, or even own a motorcycle... unless i give the ok.

 

As quoted by the article "said Anne McCartt, the senior vice president for research at the Insurance Institute, which is funded by the insurance industry]."

As a previous post pointed out, it is just a way for the insurance industry to justify raising rates.

 

Hmmm since you only average 250 miles a month you wouldn't be able to get to me until October. So I guess I better get some skills by then if I want to be in that 10% that passes. I'm assuming that your collusion with Prime Minister Suk Mi Dong will include buying up all those left over bikes that can no longer be sold to incompetent riders. When that happens they should all be distributed among those of us that meet your standards. I will be submitting my list shortly of those I would prefer.

 

Your preferences are inconsequential.....one hung lo

 

I have to admit that though the MSF class shortened my learning curve, it leaves a lot to be desired. I think, however, it is probably the best you can do from a mandatory class. When I lived in San Diego, I taught a bicycle "safety" class that was developed by the League of American Bicyclists, and it was in it all ways superior to the MSF class. For one thing it was ten weeks long at least 3 hours a week. We would begin with some class discussion discussing how to handle a particular road situation--merges, intersections, left turns, on ramps, etc.--then for two hours we would ride as a group and practice what we learned, regroup after every maneuver to discuss how it went and then try it again and again until everyone got it right. Usually there were two instructors for ten riders, but often we had three instructors. There are lots of similarities between bicycling and motorcycling, though lots of differences, too. Typically the classes would be made up of professionals who had hurt their knees or backs running and now wanted to bicycle, but were afraid of traffic. So they were motivated to learn. (The classes were dirt cheap--$30 to cover the book and some other supplies--and we would gladly subsidize anyone who oould not afford them, but young people were not interested in learning something they were sure they already knew.) That was a class designed to make a real difference. I think the MSF class is valuable, but realsitically it is just a beginning and one or two bad habits could easily cancel everything learned in the couple of days that make up the class.

I have learned more here than in the class, especially the importance of wearing good gear and riding smart. But how many motorcyclists get on forums like this that raise their awareness of what they are doing when they are on the bike. So though I think the MSF classes are good, I am not surprised they have not made a bigger dent in the accident rate. The lesson, however, is not to abandon them, but to enhance them. Of course that will be tough until the vanguard takes over the country .

 

You know what I got to say a true indicator on how safe a rider will be is his honest evaluation on his skills.

Just taking a class doesn't automatically make you a safe rider and I have to admit I never took the MSF course. And the VFR is my very first motorcycle, which most people don't agree is a good idea what with having 100 horsepower and weighing 450 pounds. According to statistics I should've totaled the VFR several years ago but I didn't because I knew then that I'm no Valentino Rossi and even when riding with more experienced people I stayed behind so that I can ride within my limits.

If you think about it you hear of those crashes about kids on crotch rockets because they think they can handle the power just fine. :crazy:

What I would like to see is a survey that asks motorcyclists how they rate themselves as a rider and also ask them their crash record. I'm willing to make a wager that most of the riders who think they have plenty to learn barely crash. And likewise those who think they know it all crash on a yearly basis.

 

it appears i officially do live in a nanny state. local government has listened to these kind of reports and are now working on passing a law that all new riders must take MSF course. graduadate licencing like in euorpe restrictions on HP. new helmet law banning beenies.however you can still wear a turban as a helmet if thats your religion

 

I'm callin BS on this one... I have used my safety training to avoid crashes that otherwise would've killed me