VF500 F2 Rear Wheel Impossible!

Thanks for the intel.

I didn't realize the centerstand was a no go when using the F2 rim. Not that everyone likes the centerstand of course.

I am working on an 17" wheel conversion using CBR600F rims. The tires sizes I have selected are 110/70F and 140/80R. I wonder if the centerstand will clear the 140/80...hmm, I didn't think of this...

Are you planning on switching out the front rim from the stock 16" diameter to a 17" F2 rim?

 

I miss the centerstand. Handy on long trips and when filling up.

No. I have already spent too much time, money and effort on a bike that may or may not last. I made sure they sell the Perelli Sport Demons in the front tire size but it may rub the fender since they seem to be a wider tire.

I desperately want a 3rd or 4th gen but I can't afford it or the insurance.

 

Cool beans. I'm a fan of the centerstand too - though I almost regret saying this in public ;-)

Is the CBR600F2 shock conversion longer than the stock mono-shock?

Smart due diligence on the tires. What size will you be going with up front?

 

awesome dude! now go ride that thing and have fun

 

The CBR shock does give you a higher ride height.

I'll be going with a 110/90-16 up front.

It's kind of January outside.

 

Good to hear the CBR600F2 shock adds some rear ride height - this should help to get the bike's geometry back in line.

If I could ask, did you crunch some numbers on the rake and trail to see where things are ending up with the F2 shock conversion and the 110/90-16F and 150/70-17R tires?

Again, many congrats on sticking with this conversion. I am glad you were able to get everything dialed in and I look forward to hearing how the bike handles, once the weather warms up!

 

I didn't crunch any numbers for the rake and tail.

To be honest I assumed everything would be fine since this is a recommended and highly sought after mod.

Do you think there'd be issues?

 

From what I've read I think most owners are very happy with the F2 wheel conversion, offered by DMr.

This said, and this may be open for debate (which is always welcome of course) I would think it would be preferable to stay close to the stock geometry (27 degrees rake and 104mm trail). I am curious myself to see where your rake and trail numbers will end up with the CBR600F2 shock and the 110/90-16F and 150/70-17R tires.

There are many factors that contribute to a bike's geometry - like Tony Foale says, 'The only thing you can't change is one thing.'

If you know the length of the new shock and you have selected the tires I can help you figure out where your bike's rake and trail are settling in.

 

Front Tire: 110/90-16

Rear Tire: 150/70-17


....and if Jamie knows the shock length he can chime in.

 

Hi Slowbird,

I think Jamie D. may also have a computer file that crunches the numbers but I am happy to help with this.

I would like to take a minute to say that I don't want to be stepping on toes here! Jamie D. provides an amazing service for First Generation owners – and I am very glad to have someone like this around.

On my ’84 VF500F I have an F4i shock conversion, also from DMr. I am not sure, though, if this is the same length as your CBR600F2 shock.

The one I have installed takes the shock's overall length about as far as you can go, without getting into reducing the travel.

On a side note, a friend of mine has Tony Foale's suspension program and he found that if the F4i shock conversion is made much longer it starts to decrease the travel (Jamie D. has confirmed this as well).

Another option to increase the rear height would be to modify the connecting link by shortening it a few mm. Again this is more a discussion topic – and I don’t mean to say that you need to do this! I have read that the F2 rear wheel conversion really improves the bike and that other owners are very happy with this modification.

I have only raised the question out of a curiosity about how your F2 wheel conversion and tire selection changes the bike’s stock geometry.

This said, I have a hunch that the front tire you have selected, with a 90 aspect ratio, might be a tad too tall - but let's see where the numbers come in.

 

I think it's prudent to keep in mind the context here. We are talking about a VF500F, not a CBR600RR or other modern sportbike. The VF500F is a great bike, but the geometry and other parts of the bike are certainly not something you pattern a WSB winning platform off of. Even if you aren't at some "ideal" set of chassis numbers that doesn't mean you haven't made a huge improvement in the handling of the bike.

Once again, the context is: stock frame, stock swingarm, stock forks, stock triple clamps.

What is being changed? Wheel and tire size, tire construction, rear ride height. Those factors will completely transform the handling of the bike. Is there more to be had? Sure! At what cost? A lot. Once again, context.

Yes, I've got some spreadsheets I've developed that perform some crazy calculations for the rear suspensions. Those help me with developing different linkages for my own bikes, but that is not something I do for others because it's way to complicated to do without having the bike here. That said, if there is anything I can do to help just drop me an e-mail and I'll be happy to do what I can.

 

Well noted!

Thank you for the post.

I hope I didn't muddle things up here - my thinking is more along the lines that Slowbird might opt for a lower profile tire up front to help dial in the bike's rake and trail vs. getting into some heavy lifting on suspension design.

 

For the sake of the performance argument, I have often wondered what the benefit would be to putting heavier tires and wider rims on a machine with less than impressive bhp numbers to begin with. I would be interested in seeing exactly how much extra weight is added or removed by this wheel conversion. I have my own personal doubts about any actual improvement. Anybody have any hard data?

 

the cbr wheels are much lighter than the stock 500 wheels, you can tell that by just picking them up a wider wheel lets you run a bigger tire, newer rubber where before we where limited to what kind of tires we could run, the improvements are well above stock, dont believe me go out and buy the bike and do the conversion other wise you dont have a clue about what your talking about

 

The proof is in the pudding! Thanks for posting this - it always good to have real time comments from owners who have this conversion installed.

My interest is in how the 17" wheel conversion changes the stock geometry of the VF500F. I think it might be helpful to create a check list of sorts to help an owner dial the tire selection when installing CBR600F or CBR600F2 rims.

This said, Slowbird is looking a 110/90-16 up front and I am curious (once we know his shock length) were the rake and trail numbers come in for his bike.

Not too say that everything has to be 100 percent by the numbers (in this case 27d and 104mm) but if the trail is pushing into the 115 -120mm range he might consider a tire with a smaller diameter.

 

I think the only other front tire option I have with the stock 16" Wheel is 100/90-16

 

I think you might have a few more options - I checked on Pirelli's web site:

PIRELLIMoto - SPORT DEMON

 

Slowbird, here are some of the numbers. You mentioned that your new 'F2 shock is longer than stock, so this will be a help (we need the actual length to get the bike's rake and trail) but given that your new rear tire is 13mm smaller than stock and the front tire you have selected is 18mm taller than stock - you may want to look at other options up front.

Stock Tires:
100/90-16F, 586mm dia.
110/90-18R, 655mm dia.

Pirelli's Stats:
110/90-16F, 604mm dia.
150/70-17R, 642mm dia.

Mono-Shock:
stock shock length, 346mm

 

The Perelli website lists only these Front 16" Tire sizes:

100/90 - 16
110/70 - 16
110/90 - 16
120/70 - 16
120/80 - 16

The 120 width tires will most likely be too wide so that leaves me with:

-The stock size 100/90-16
- 110/70-16
- Or what I currently have: 110/90-16

 

Here are the measurements for the listed Sport Demon front tires - referenced from Pirelli's 2009 Tire Catalog*:

100/90-16 TL 54H Sport Demon....| Front | Measuring Rim: 2.50 | Rims Permitted: 2.15-2.75 | Max. Width: 103 | Max. Height: 586
110/90-16 TL 59V Sport Demon....| Front | Measuring Rim: 2.50 | Rims Permitted: 2.15-3.00 | Max. Width: 115 | Max. Height: 604
120/80-16 TL 60V Sport Demon....| Front | Measuring Rim: 2.75 | Rims Permitted: 2.50-3.00 | Max. Width: 119 | Max. Height: 603

*110/70-16 is not listed as an available size in the 2009 Tire Catalog.