VF500 F2 Rear Wheel Impossible!

i dont think it has anything to do with the swing arm opening unless something very bad happen to this bike to bend that thing in more than a
16th of an inch then id say its fucked!

 

That thing is a bearing...it spins.

The original carrier has the same thing.

Is it not supposed to be there?

 

You absolutely MUST have that insert in the carrier bearing. Running without it is really bad and would cause all three of the axle bearings to be destroyed in short order.


Slowbird - Keep focusing on the sprocket carrier. I cannot stress to you enough that this is where the problem lies. Looking elsewhere is wasted effort. The sprocket carrier seated fully for Pat and he got the wheel to fit just fine.

 

1st: I am focusing on getting the carrier to fit...that's why I am posting these pics. Maybe we can see something not right that may be causing the fitment issues.

2nd: This kit did NOT fit correctly for Pat. He has said on many occasions that the kit was a tight fit and Prying/shoe-horning was needed to make everything fit.

Maybe there is something wrong specifically with the F2 wheel??

 

I purposely made the spacers in the kit a tight fit to ensure that everything fit snugly. That's what Pat was referring to I'm pretty sure.

Here are some pictures I just took of my own bike in case they help. The gap between the wheel hub and sprocket carrier flange is 1mm or less. It was tough to get a picture that showed it well as my camera was attacked by some salt water a couple of weeks ago. I apologize for the filth on the wheel, I normally clean things up before I take pictures. Alas, that's what my stuff looks like most of the time.

 

I think you are taking what I said about the screwdriver the wrong way. I did not have to pry anything to get it to fit. I just used the screwdriver to get the chain adjuster over the inside "lip" of the swing arm. Then TAPPED it the rest of the way with a rubber mallet.

When I said I had the same problem; I was referring to the fact that it did not just "slide right in." I might have not even needed to use the screwdriver but I'll never know because thats the first thing I tried and it worked

 

It's not just the Screwdriver thing (which you are now elaborating to make it completely different)

Your PM's say that everything goes into the swing arm sooooo tight that in order to position the wheel correctly...you need to whack it with a rubber mallet.

That sounds too tight to me.

Back to the situation at hand:

Well I've tried PRYING the swing arm open and trying to slide this thing in and it won't get in there.

So my goal is to get this Carrier to sit properly in the wheel?

The Pictures are up...I don't know what IS or ISN'T supposed to be there. There's only so many times I can keep trying the same thing and getting the same results.

Something needs to change before this will fit.....what is the solution?

Carrier is machined - CHECK
Carrier is in proper shape - CHECk (unless someone see's the pics and says otherwise)
F2 Wheel is in Proper Shape - ???
Cush Drives are in proper shape - ???

Where is the problem?

 

the F2 wheel looks in better shape then the one on my bike and so do the crush drives....at this point i dont know if i could be anymore of use to you, i'm stumped as to why it wont fit right in with out being in front of it.

 

No shit. It might need to be cut down so the carrier can seat fully.

Then again, if you designed the kit with the carrier not fully seated(which I don't like, because it allows dirt into the cush drive and into the back of the unsealed carrier bearing), then modifying the bearing to let the carrier seat fully will move the chain out of line by that amount.

 

I'm referring to #9 in the pic, BTW. Fiche is for 86 500F.

 

Sounds like the collar...

 

So 25 is the bearing and #9 is the collar that I circled in the picture above.

But that collar needs to stay in there....so what's my next step?

 

Yes.

If the collar is the culprit, then it needs to be machined(turned on a lathe) to allow the carrier to mate with the wheel. The trick is, the carrier needs to mate with the wheel AND the collar needs to also mate with the wheel bearing, to prevent lateral force on the bearings.

So, in my opinion, based on what I can see, your first step to accomplishing this is to remove the collar, clean it, and inspect its fit.

If you remove the collar, clean & inspect it, then find that it fits differently(or is deformed/damaged), you may need to source another.

If it is fitting the way it should, see if the carrier mates with the wheel with the collar removed. If it does, you need to reinstall the collar(clean all the parts as you go!), then install the carrier on the wheel again, and measure the gap with a precision measuring tool, like a pair of dial or vernier calipers for instance.

Next you would take the collar along with the measurement to a machine shop and have them remove that measured amount from the surface of the collar which mates with the wheel bearing. Tell the shop that you have tolerance requirement of +.010", -0.000". Measure the collar before dropping it off and again after you pick it up(with your precision measuring tool) to verify.

This is a simple operation and should not cost much at all.

Next you can install your parts in the bike - however, since you have now effectively moved the carrier closer to the wheel, you will need to see if the chain is still aligned in parallel to the center of the bike(front to back).

 

^ Don't do that.


The real problem is that I'm not there with the parts. Honestly the best option would be to send the wheel and carrier to me so that I can fit them together and find out what's going on. That said, my guess would be that it's not the wheel. I say that because the bearing is supposed to fit flush on that side and it looks just fine from the pictures. There really isn't much else that could be causing it. Here are two options I can throw out to you:

1) Send the sprocket carrier to me. Shipping should be minimal on a small box like that. I can then try to fit it up to some wheels I have here to see if I can duplicate the problem.

2) I can send you another VF500F sprocket carrier that has been modified for use with the F2 wheel. You can see if it fits better. In fact, I'd even go so far as to send you the one off my own bike if that's what it takes.

I understand that this has been a tough process for you (more difficult than it should have been, unfortunately). I support the stuff I've made 100% so I'll do whatever I can to make sure this wheel gets on your bike.

Shoot me an e-mail so we can discuss further about the details on how to proceed. You can also feel free to give me a call if that would help.

 

I can appreciate the efforts you described above without being in Slowbird's shoes, but would you elaborate on your above quoted statement? By your own admission and proof with your pictures, your own bike's parts don't fit "as Honda intended".

 

christ! its like a damn cat fight in here why is it we need to play the blame game for everything that goes wrong...i mean give it a rest

 

Jamie...I appreciate the offer...and I may just take you up on it.


For now...I'm going to enlist the help of my brother and my dad to lend me a hand and see if it can get done with 2 extra pairs of hands and 2 new looks at it.

If I can't get it in then I'll let you know.


P.S. How's my shock coming along?

 

So I haven't been able to get a hand getting this wheel on.

I got a new tire put on cause the one on there was showing some age and cracking...and I put on a 42 tooth Sprocket to replace the 44.

Anyways....I did this at night so no pics... but it looks like the carrier is sitting ok...and the place where I see a problem is here:



My spacers don't sit together....there is nothing stuck inbetween them. But it seems like the hole for the bracket is BARELY large enough to allow the caliper bracket to fit through but for some reason they don't sit flush.

I tried prying the swingarm open a bit, and I can almost slide the last adjuster in there....but this isn't something I can do on my own.

I need to get more daytime pics.

 

Boy, one thing after another huh? How do those spacers and the caliper bracket fit on the axle just by themselves? Can you see any damage to the parts that would keep them from fitting properly?

 

^^ I'll check that on my lunch break today