shifting without clutch.

Sorry, no. Just because the gears are always meshed doesn't mean that they always have a load on them or are meant to be shifted without the clutch. The only gears that are loaded are the ones selected at any give time. Shifting without the clutch will send a shock load to the newly selected gears - how much will depend on how good you are at backing off the throttle and engaging the gears at the exact moment the dogs sliding on the output shaft are in perfect sync with the gears you want to select.

Modern gearboxes are built to very close tolerances, and if you know what you are doing and are good at it (or very lucky), you can shift without using the clutch and cause little to no damage to the transmission. But don't kid yourself that you are doing the transmission any favors. Using the clutch will remove engine power from the transmission for a longer period of time, giving you a greater chance that the gears will be able to disengage and reengage cleanly before power is reapplied.

The previous statement assumes that you are using the clutch in a normal manner - disengage, shift, reengage, and not "fanning" the clutch in a ill-concieved attempt to immitate a drag bike. (Serious drag bikes don't use the clutch because they have air shifters that kill the engine for the fraction of a second the air shifter requires - way faster than your little booty can move. They are not worried about getting 50 or 100k miles out of their transmissions either).

The whole clutch/no clutch question keeps popping up, and my answer to all the people who say "no clutch is better" is this: There has NEVER been a manufacturer of cars or motorcycles who has recommended that you shift their vehicle without using the clutch. These are people who have a vested interest in making sure that your vehicle makes it at least through the warranty period with the gearbox intact.

If you think it shifts faster or whatever, go ahead and do it - it's your bike. But if you are really trying to make the gearbox last as long as it can, use the clutch.

 

You still need the clutch for downshifts and taking off from a dead stop. "Think about it" as you say.

 

Never. Not even between first and second aka the real neutral.

 

You can downshift without the clutch the opposite way you upshift: Pop it into neutral as you let off the throttle, blip the throttle to raise the rpm, then lightly hold your toe on top of the shifter. As the rpm falls, there will be a point where the engine rpm and road speed meet, and the bike will drop into the lower gear. I don't recommend it, but you could do it.

Unless you disable the starter safety switch, you will still need the clutch to start from a dead stop. :smile:

 

I never use the clutch cept for downshifting into first sometimes and obviously starting out....
Rarely ever miss a shift this way, and thats a lot easier on my bike than when I did.( I am talking WFO shifting.how do you miss a shift poking?)) I like driving the bag off my bike a lot and a good shift is important...if i want to putter on it, it doesnt matter either way. Just so used to it I do it all the time at any speed as I find it just too easy not to do, smoother , and easier on my bike. Really great for carrying the camera or a coffee in left hand this way...
Downshifting is just a simple, just carefull going into first as thing can ned a lot of rpm to match up smoothly. With a passenger i usually use clutch going down into first.
Mind you mishifts havnt ever been a issue with the vfr at any speeds, on a lot of my other bikes it was. ..clutchless shifting basically cured them all. On the other hand,my vfr's upshift just thinkin bout it...

Done it this way since 1976, and I have never replaced a clutch on any bike I had, or ever had a issue with a tranny, and I have some very old bikes still that only got driven this way and still shift flawlessly, and show no signs of wear when i have had them apart.. You miss a bunch of shifts even using a clutch and the dogs will suffer the same if not more...You ever pull one of these trannies and see how simple they are and how they work, its easy to see how you can do this. No blocking rings like a car, just simple dogs that catch and they don't know if you used the clutch or not..they still go bang in there.

.I started out doing it in drag racing and bag driving as it was faster and basically eliminated mishifts...then just kept doing it even when putt-ing cause its second nature.I like it. But hey..Both work obviously, so whatever makes you happy.I never really worry bout how the next guy shifts actually!


In the end if you are not good at it, then don't.You make it grind somehow,then stop it and get a scooter!!!

 

Other than take off or downshifting into a corner that I was worried about dragging the rear on my old GSXR I rarely used the clutch and never had any mechanical problems tranny or clutch weiss...

 

For me it's clutchless most of the time. I have noticed that different bikes are more or less receptive to clutchless, and probably some of has to do with the technique needed for each machine. But my VFR couldn't match my technique any better.

I would even say that I get smoother shifts without the clutch than with it on this bike. Most of the time that I use the clutch (after starting out from a stop) is if in traffic that it trolling along; if there isn't enough load on the trans (by accelerating or decellerating) to make it stay in one gear while I apply some pressure to the shift lever before snapping the throttle, that is when I use the clutch to shift.

I think that some might not follow through on the shift lever when trying clutchless. After applying pressure to the lever it is important to be prepared to move the shift lever all the way quickly, within the time that the throttle is snapped closed and then reapplied to the same amount as before (on an upshift). If the shift lever is not adjusted to the riders comfortable range of motion then the lever doesn't move all the way to the next gear within that brief time period.

To me, if there is no clunking from the trans, or lurching from the bike during the shift then it has been accomplished properly, whether with or without the clutch.

 

If you are having trouble shifting with teh clutch smoothly,

shift sooner.

fixed it for me.

 

Once, there were not hydraulic clutches, so when the infamous clutch cable broke itself there was no other way to shift speed : find the right RPM and put the gear you need. It was something that was in the rider's "toolkit". Imagine that old 70s competition bikes had a kill switch : just a pressure on it and the shift was faster than ever, without clutch, of course. Other times. other riders, other bikes.
Ciao and lamps to all VFR owners.
Carmine

 

Interesting thread, me, I think I'll just continue to use the clutch.
Whatever works for you.


ace57

 

You don't know what you are missing! Clutchless upshifts are are gift that we should all enjoy.

 

He he, well I've done more than a few on my pitbike, inadvertently of course!

ace57

 

pitbike shifting lol

I don't ever unless I'm in a different state of mind...
I agree with what was said earlier about clutches are cheaper than gear boxes... unless you have TONS of spare parts and time to dilly dally I would just not do it... be a good boy and end this need for controversy. Just use your clutch :crazy:

 

My bikes have literally thousands (maybe tens of thousands?) of clutchless shifts and absolutely zero failed gearbox parts. The facts do not support your theory.

 

On my track bikes I rarely use the clutch to upshift except for 1st to 2nd and this is at redline RPM and have never had a problem. But I ALWAYS use the clutch for downshifting, too much chance to miscalculate speed\rpms and having the rear wheels lock up is not good :frown: and a lot of times I feather the clutch in downshifts when I'm trying to shed some speed in the corners but don't want to loose too much rpms to keep it in the powerband. Like others have said, I have never noticed any problems with the transmission when I do the winter tear down. On street bikes, I mostly use the clutch just for the additional control it gives, there's really no place that I need the extra speed on the street :smile:

 

I have tried clutchless shifting, on more than a couple bikes, and I just can't seem to get it right on the VFR. The cruisers all worked fine, but the VFR just won't do it for me. Guess I'll stick with using the clutch, that's what it's there for, right?

 

upshift, yes, sometimes. Downshift, no.

 

upshift yes. downshift no.

 

Maybe I missed something, but I'm not sure anyone has been suggesting that clutchless downshifting was ok. I thought this post was about upshifting.

 

Been doing this on my ZX6, 750 and my VFR for a long time. Heck i even downshift occasionally by upping the revs a little, the key to it is rev matching basically. Its a bit trickier but timing is everything.