My Dealer and possibly Honda Linked braking almost killed me yeseterday

I can't say from all my years as a tech, I have never forgotten to torque a bolt to it's correct spec, but I have damn sure never forgotten to torque a brake caliper bolt! I don't know, maybe it's years of experience or having to unfuck other peoples terrible work, but I can almost forgive a mistake like the tech made, except for where it was made on what system it was made, and the fact that to change a caliper there are only like 4 bolts including the hoses, so to forget to attach 25% is pretty terrible, also because it's hanging out in the open. I'm sure the tech started the bolt, but certainly never put a socket or wrench on it. I n my years as a honda tech (cars) I can't tell you how many times I got a panicked feeling that I couldn't remember if I had tightened a specific bolt or whatever and I was outside with a wrench or ratchet double checking to be sure- only to find out I had done things properly. Unfortunately you likely got a younger tech who just hasn't learned the specific process to follow to ensure a mistake like that never happens. They better at a minimum credit you back every cent you paid them for any work their shop performed.

 

#1 your alive..thats good...
#2 wow
#3

any way, I just thought I would pass this along to you...a few weeks ago I changed my rotors on my truck....two bolts hold the caliper on.......I drove to Santa Cruz Ca and on the way home the brakes started to make noise...when I checked the brakes I saw that the top bolt had vanished.............I know for a fact that I torqued those bitches down(even used a tourgue wrench). but I had lost one I replaced the one that was missing and all is well know.......except the other day I heard a wierd noise so I stopped to look and ALL FOUR BOLTS WERE LOOSE!!!! I tell you this so that you don't run in to the shop yelling about incompatance. Take your time speak in a calm rational voice and let them know how upset it has made you.........calm people saying they are upsetwhile remaining calm, always scares the shit out of them....

Goodluck


Crusty

 

Wow! Did you happen to lend your torque wrench out to anyone? Like say a Honda tech?
I'm not sure what happened in your case;
1. You don't know how to use the wrench properly,or
2. the wrench is way the heck out of calibration/broken.
Either way, I think it may be time to start paying someone to do your work.

I'm just glad they don't work on my aircraft. I don't need no sh!t falling off in midflight.
Karazy

 

I have a good friend who is a lawyer, gave me some advice (don't accept anything or even talk about it, until I am calm). They are understandably nervous and offered a brake job and fork rebuild (after the service manager who is in all truth, an honest guy, admitted it wasn't torqued).

I declined to comment (BS offer to be honest), and mentioned i'll deal with compensation next week. My lawyer buddy said calm down, pick something that would make me happy, if it's a problem, he'll get involved. Lawsuits in Canada are very different than the US. No harm, no big payout.

But get this!!!

On my way home my headlights and instruments went dead. Thinking it was related to the sub-harness recall also. I flipped out.

Turned out to be a fuse. I apologized for losing my cool, and will call them back once I think of what would like to make me happy.

They also inspected the bike completely and replaced EVERYTHING missing (bolt's clips, etc) that we're not put on after i stripped her for painting.

I'll post back what happens.

Off topic, I own 3 torque wrenches BTW. I do my own work on my cars but ironically, aren't comfortable working on the VFR being new to bikes.

 

Damn, and I mean that. Remaining calm is definitely a good thing, but if you can manage a slightly out of focus, cold stare thru the person you're dealing with :^) ...

 

Man, you seem to be having a run of bad luck. I'm a mechanic at a new car dealership so I usually end up playing devil's advocate but I have also lost respect for one of our local Honda shops (they won't get any more of my service work, recall or otherwise).
After taking my '02 in for the fairing subharness recall and having the completion of said recall delayed by tech illness for two days, I got the bike home and parked it for a few days due to foul weather. About a week later after a post-ride cleanup, I noticed my once pristine headlamp lenses had some nasty (to me) criss crossing scratches up and down them. Needless to say, I was fairly pissed but after having the bike back in my possession for a week, there is no way to prove it happened while in-shop. I just clenched my teeth and chalked it up to experience. ALWAYS do a walk-around with the service manager or service advisor before and after getting your bike serviced. It protects you and the shop from liability and future ill-will and you might spot something you didn't know about before you leave your baby there.
Skip ahead to three weeks ago, I'm putting new front plastics on the viff and what do I find? The nipple-headed idiot that put my bike back together after the recall plugged my front signal bulb sockets in improperly. The harness side of the connector plugs into the bulb socket at a right angle and whomever reassembled it plugged them in straight. I now have a total lack of confidence in this dealer to perform the work that should be common sense stuff. It's too bad really, because the parts department staff is pretty damn knowledgeable.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is you should definitely become familiar with that bike and hold your sevice facility accountable, especially considering the nature of the issues you have had, but also remember that they are human too.

 

ONE problem is that the stealerships don't want to pay top salaries to top mechanics; instead they pay shit wages to trainees who screw up !!

The irresponsible toerag that failed to tighten a brake component should be working at Taco Bell!! ( His wages would be the same!)


ANY decent, responsible service shop will test ride the completed bike to verify that repairs were done properly.

 

d00d, I have so done that!!! NEVER start installing a fastener and walk away! I did that once with a radiator cap. Early in my career, a service advisor called me with a question and I forgot I hadn't finished with the radiator cap. The car made it five miles and was back with steam coming out and I was left with egg on my face. No damage to vehicle, just topped off the radiator and FULLY installed the cap. Now if I'm in the middle of something, you get to wait til I'm done before I get to answering you. +1 to many shops that will put a trainee or newbie straight out of school that hasn't had the time to develop good work habits in the position of doing work that is over their heads.

 

It's such a double edges sword sometimes for the shop, because you really only learn enough in school to cover the basics of how things work, and there is a definite trial by fire period for new techs, before you have done enough of the common jobs and repairs to have a repeatable procedure. I mean I'm in no way condoning this guys f-up, but I can see how this mistake could happen. Most shops are all about production, and that's how techs get paid. When I started out, my bay was next door to a master tech's bay so if I was struggling or had questions he was right there to help, supervise, and in some cases quality control my work. That's the right way to break in a noob, unfortunately not all shops share that sentiment and just throw a guy to the wolves. Yes, even the most basic tech should have been able to complete the OP's brake work without error, but I also have many experiences like the post above where you get called away to work on some waiter or answer questions, and if you don't have the experience it can be easy to forget where you left off, and that's where mistakes happen. There is plenty to be mad about for the customer, and lots of blame to go around the service dept. The tech failed in his task of fixing the bike properly, and the shop likely failed the tech, by either overloading him with work before he was ready or not taking the time to teach proper procedures. Or maybe the tech is a moron and i'm giving him too much credit I just know how it is to be a tech starting out so I do have a bit of sympathy for the shop.

One of the best pieces of advise I was ever told regarding auto repair was "Do not ever start a fastener unless you are going to torque it to spec"

Also anyone who thinks "stealerships" don't pay top wages is kidding themselves- master techs at a dealer get paid the same as an equivalent tech would at an independent shop- experience determines your salary in nearly every occupation, and anyone that thinks going to an independent is far cheaper needs to get better estimates- the labor rates are basically the same at every shop, the difference is usually factory or aftermarket parts. All shops pay shit wages to noobs too, but if you want to work in the business you do your best and learn as much as you can and make as few mistakes as possible. The other thing people should consider is that the tech in no way gets a pass in all this- comebacks are the worst thing in the world for a tech. You lose out twice, because you are now working on a vehicle a second time for free, and missing out on opportunity to make money on new work while working on the comeback, and if you have too many comebacks and mis-diagnosis, you get fired. Also, the customer is pissed and customers are very hard to find these days and if you have one as a business you have to do everything to retain them and not fixing the vehicle properly on the first visit is a great way to make sure a customer won't ever come back. Try finding that kind of record in any other business. If you go to the doctor, and the meds he gives you don't make the illness go away, he doesn't heal you for free to make up for the improper course of action before- your ass gets to pay for another appt. different meds, and you get to hope he got it right the second or third time.

 

The solution to this problem is to hire squirrlyman and KC whatever to go out and beat the crap out of everyone who does something wrong. The problem would be keeping them in separate cages.