Ticket!

OK, so I've been contemplating whether or not to post about this, but here goes. :redface:

I'm riding home one day last week. My commute is about 20 miles each way. I have a bit of spring fever, since its 85 degrees out. That doesn't happen to often in New Jersey in April.

About 5 miles before I get home is a small, but fun, set of twisties. It only lasts a little over a mile, but its the best part of my commute. 99% of the time, there is a cage in front of me. But not last week!

So I enjoy myself with some spirited riding, come out of the last bend, and BOOM! Your friendly neighborhood police officer. (Its not a neighborhood by the way - its a very empty road). I KNEW I was speeding. Part of me is saying run for it, he's got no chance; that he couldn't have actually "read" my bike on radar. But the logical part - the one that says I got a wife, mortgages and kids and tuition, says pull over. (Not to mention that the road splits a mile up, and you either go directly to the police station, or into the center of town. Not a good choice either way).

Of course he pulled out right away, and rather than give chase, I pulled over almost immediately.

Turns out he clocked me at 77 in a 35. This "kid" officer is about half my age. I don't think he was expecting a "graybeard" to be on this type of bike. (Yes, ATGATT) I'm polite, I "yes sir" and "no sir" him to death. Told him I really thought I was doing 50 to 55 and that the limit was 45. Obviously, I was wrong.

20 minutes later, he does me a "favor" of giving me a reckless driving. In New Jersey, this is only 2 points, and an $85 fine. Not bad, I guess. Conversely, he tells me he could have pulled my license on the spot for driving double the speed, or at least given me a careless driving and a speeding ticket for a combined 6 points and about $400 in fines.

He even tells me I should go and fight it, and can probably get it reduced to an "unsafe driving", which is zero points. I'd still have to pay the fines, but that's OK with me.

Not the most exciting story. I actually feel embarrassed; :redface: that's the first moving violation I've had in years.

Does anyone have any suggestions on trying to get the ticket downgraded?

How easy/hard is it for a bike to be detected on radar? Hard to explain the exact angle that he was facing me, but in my opinion, it couldn't have been more favorable for him. :frown:

OK, so spare me the ridicule...

 

In a former life I was a police officer (long time ago in a place far,far away.) Their are ways to fight the radar but by the scenario you gave it seems like very little options. You have to go to court and fight it. 1st if their was a vehicle around you, radar picks up the bigger object so you could go that route but your case their wasn't any other vehcles that you mentioned. If you go to court you could ask if the radar was calibrated that day before the officer stopped you. The officer should have some sort of log. (now this is on a state to state basis if they require it or not) If not then your case could be dismissed. Actually the officer gave you the best advice to go to court and down grade the ticket. Then there is the expensive route and get a lawyer and have him be your advocate. Which ever you decide I wish you luck.

 

Here in NM being cited for Reckless is way worse than Careless driving. The last time I went to court (as witness for a friend), we talked to the clerk prior to the hearing and he reduced my friends ticket to 0 points and traffic school. He still had to pay around $80 court costs and for traffic school.

Action

 

You were lucky to have such a cool cop and such a light ticket. "Yes Sir" etc.. was the right thing to do (as was pulling over) but IMO, BSing about "I thought it was a 45", "thought I was only doing 50" etc only insults their intelligence. If he told you to fight the ticket I would do exactly that. It sounds like he's giving you a hint that he won't show, in which case the judge will dismiss it for you. Maybe he's a sympathetic VFR rider.Good luck!

 

what kind of Radar? was it Laser or the usual stuff? K ka band? was he stopped or rolling in the other direction? and how many other cars? ineither direction? just some questions...If he nailed you with a laser then he got you as these have to be pointed at the target(like "painting a target for a smart bomb to hit). If it is the "regular type of radar, yeah, it will pick you up, although in my experience clocking a motorcycle with a radar gun worked, but the bike almost had to be on top on the unit for it to register..this was years ago so your mileage may vary..as far as fighting it..you always can dispute a ticket....and when you do, as long as you aren't a dickhead in court there is only two things that can happen. fine stays the same, or the fine goes down..If your record is clean chances are the judge may fine you and give you zero points but that depends on if you get a judge thats in a good mode...remember....every excuse that you can come up with the judge has heard before... And if you decide to fight it. have all your ducks in a row. don't fumble around trying to look for things while you are in front of the judge...... and above all remember your manners...this actuall goes along way. actually a good point brought up by diver, about the calibration...we used to have to write all that info on the ticket...as wellas produce the records of the unit in question ( each state, county, municipality, city ,township is different)


disclaimer
this is not legal advice just advice from one private citizen to another and should not be taken as fact...these are just my opinions and experiences

dislaimer off


Good luck

Crusty

Good luck

 

You can drive for years obeying the rules 95% of the time, then that "one" time you screw the pooch, you get pulled over. Doesn't seem fair that you can't get credit for all the times you didn't break the law. Oh, well. Life isn't fair.

But if he told you you may be able to get it reduced, I'd go for that.

 

Thanks guys, good stuff. To answer a few items:

1. I did go back and drive the road over the weekend. Turns out where I was ticketed, the limit is 40. Not the 45 I suspected, and not the 35 the officer said.

2. I have no doubt that he was being SUPER cool about letting me off.

3. There were no other vehicles around.

4. I do not know if it was conventional or radar. Since he let me slide, I decided not to push my luck and say "can I see that radar?. Had he decided to put the screwes to me, sure, I was going to ask.

5. I said reckless, but maybe it was careless? I don't have the ticket in front of me, but either way, I know its a lesser ticket than speeding.

6. Because its a reckless/careless, there is no reference to me speeding. So I can't fight a speeding ticket.

 

If the officer was moving in his vehicle it would have to have been radar. There is no such thing as moving laser in speed reading

 

He was at a stop. His car facing at a 90 degree to the road, on the same side of the road that I was traveling, and the officer with radar gun in hand pointed out the drivers window. I knew my odds weren't good, lol.

 

I got nailed in NJ on my fz 700 almost 20 years ago- still to this date I can no longer drive in NJ or I go to jail, but yet my sister makes me drive there to see her every year.
DO'H

 

Odds are it was laser. Most are going to laser for hand held devices but there are still hand held radar units widely used out there. I do believe though that he was giving you a hint. Many jurisdictions will allow you to plead to a lesser offense to clear up backlogs in court but this normally required you to contest the charge.

Good luck.

 

Really you shouldn't be afraid to ask to see the radar - you have the right to see the evidence against you. You can file FOIA or discovery of evidence to see if the laser was certified (it will be included) and if there was any recordings they will also be included. If the officer tells you the speed limit is something other than what it is I would fight to get the ticket thrown out. Judges though, like many police officers (I mean no disrespect to you Randy just saying this from personal experience), are corrupt and will do as they please.

There are lots of good websites that offer advice on fighting tickets. I will try to remember to get JB to post them up when he is not working.

 

It all boils down to credibility. I don't answer for anyone's actions other than my own and I will put my credibility up against anyone's. But I don't doubt there are shady ones out there. But "corrupt" is a bit strong. Insinuated being "on the take". Maybe embellishing would fit in better.

I would give you are break SHorty just 'cause.

 

Take it to court. The guy is cutting you some slack. Even if he shows which is unlikely IMO the magistrate probably has the option of deferring the citation and he can set the fine much lower than the 80 bucks. If the officer does not show you walk. The basic deal is that it is not possible to cross examine a piece of paper.

If the prosecutor a/o the judge are assholes you may have to make a motion to dismiss if the officer doesn't show.

Two things to remember. You are playing against a stacked deck Never ever lose your cool in a courtroom.

Any mention of laser or radar is now moot since the citation is not for exceeding the speed limit.

 

Do what the officer suggested you do. You did the right thing by being civil with him, especially since you knew you were speeding and therefore knew what he was telling you was correct. No sense asking to see the radar, the calibration logs, etc, etc, when you know and he knows you were way over the limit. That just pisses them off, and rightly so.

Someone said above that he may not show up for court, in that case you'll walk. Or he may show up, tell the judge how cooperative you were, and the judge may reduce it for you. You've already gotten a big break so you don't really have anything to loose by showing up for court. Last time I was in traffic court it was rather entertaining, actually.....lots and lots of really stupid people in there, some of which got hauled off to jail. :smile:

I've had several instances in the past where the officer wrote on the back of my ticket that he requested probation, and when I went to court the judge did just that....as long as I got no more moving traffic violations for the next year, the ticket would be dropped from my record after 1 year. Don't know if they do things like that up in Jersey, but you never know.

Good Luck.
H.C.D.

 

Why should that piss them off?? You have every right to see it if you want, whether you disagree with the alleged speed or not.

 

Are you saying you're a fugitive? Failure to appear? I can't imagine what you could have done to warrant the state to revoke your driving privileges indefinitely...

 

Oh, I'm definitely going to court. Not that I want to toss away money, but I'd much rather pay a fine than have points on my license.

I would never lose it in court, especially on such a "small" item. $85, a few court fees and 2 points are not the end of the world. I just don't like it. My wife can make fun of me now!

The question becomes how do I fight this? The officer was kind enough to give me a much lesser offense, and it is NOT for speeding. So as Badbilly says, that's not even an issue. But when/if the judge asks what I did to get pulled over, I can't lie about it.

With a few questions, the judge could easily determine that the officer already cut me some slack. Now what do I do?

I haven't had a moving violation in over 5 years (til now). The ticket is in my own town. I am a "white collar guy", run my own business in the county, and can put on my Sunday best. :biggrin:

If I could get this all settled ahead of time, that would be my best bet. I'd rather pay fines than have the points.

 

Where can I find these broad rights? In parts of NYS including NYC we have the TVB and you have no such rights... No discovery, no supporting deposition, no plea bargains. You get an administrative law judge too... Rage against the machine!!!

 

Maybe if I turn 02Rider over to the authorities I can bargain my way out of this! :wink:

Or, I just charge him my fines and fees!