Arrogant Cop

And here's another beautiful thing, Reasonable suspicion can be almost anything, and nobody but an officer who observed it could tell if it was or wasn't. Therefore it is not evidence, it is Hearsay.

However, Probably Cause, the magic phrase that grants rights to government agents, i.e. the Police, can be decided by anyone with half a brain.
Probably cause is: I smell alcohol on the driver's breath, the car was weaving, I saw a gun pointed from passenger side, Driver was fleeing a crime scene, Speed was excessive.

These a factual observations, not subjective judgements, and each observation only grants a right for the authority to investigate that particular transgression. That is the letter of the law. Unfortunately, many peace officers unlawfully extend the Terry search and probable cause for an unrelated incident to make busts.

Terry frisk is a case of record from which Officers have a right to determine if a citizen is armed while he is in a vehicle or on foot. They are legally able to attain satisfaction that there are no weapons present within reasonable grasp of the driver of a car, and they can do that without PC or Warrant, for their own safety.

I say, God-given rights are enumerated in the BOR. I have the right to own and carry firearms regardless of my criminal background, regardless of my political activism, and regardless of the bullshit watch list you've got me on.

 

I am by no means a rocket scientist, but I do know for 1000% certain it is NEVER a good idea to not give a LEO identification if he/she asks. Even if you have outstanding warrants in 11 countries, pissing the LEO off & not doing what he/she asks is only going to make the problem worse. Unless the LEO tells you to stay motionless & not say or do anything, when the driver is asked for their ID, produce yours.

When my friend & I got stopped 2 days ago, the LEO never asked me for anything as it was my friend that had the "No M Endorsement" show up in the computer when he ran our plates. Since he was looking hard to find a reason to cite us, I figured I would prove that we WERE NOT squids. Even though he never asked me for anything, I presented my military ID along with all my motorcycle related credentials. Once he saw that, he pretty much realized that we were not squids. I also guess the township in question never got the memo that squids don't wear full leathers & top of the line safety equipment on a bike that is in flawless condition despite being 9 years old.

The thing that pisses me off the most, yet all the LEO fans will say is OK by them, is he pulled out & tailed us for absolutely no reason. He couldn't have seen our plates since he was facing oncoming traffic as we rode by him. Why did he target us? Because he was a tool, plain & simple.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

I can't understand why people would not like cops..

 

I guess you showed that cop who's boss. The next step would be to write that memo to the township and really take care of business. Don't forget to sign it if you do. Those darned politicians don't pay too much attention to unsigned memos. Signed you see would likely insure sucess on your next promotion. I'm guessing maybe E3 to E4.

Did you know that squid was as little as $.29/lb until it got to be calamari?

There might be some argument concerning reaching for things not asked for when pulled over by the cops.

 

I AM NOT a lawyer by any means, but I WOULD NOT recommend you do this in the CPRofNJ. NJ only recognizes their own gun laws & not a single other law from a single other state. If fact, (here's one for the LEO's, even you guys will think this is BS) off duty Police from PA, NY & DE, etc are not allowed to carry in NJ.

I didn't show anyone who's boss. AAANNNDDD I asked if it was OK to reach inside before I even un-zipped my jacket. I never do anything when pulled over without asking first.

One thing, btw... I'm not quite sure what the point you're trying to make is.

If you're trying to make infantile insults as to whether or not I'll get promoted, you need to try harder. I'm fairly certain a traffic citation (oh wait, I didn't get one so it doesn't matter) would not affect my promotion chances in the slightest manner. Pretty much every person that rides a motorcycle on base knows me & knows I don't squid, ever. So, if a traffic unit or township called the base about me, no one would listen or take them seriously.


Here's what I don't get (you know, I am kinda neanderthalific) & maybe you can enlighten me: Why it is people who are Police or are affliated with the Police can't understand why the average Joe Public doesn't like to be intimidated/harrassed, etc by the Police? If a person does something wrong, intitiate the stop, state what the person did wrong & cite them. Sounds pretty cut & dried to me. Don't simply tail a person for no reason, stop them for no reason & then fish around for SOMETHING to cite them on. That does absolutely nothing other than strengthen the stereo-types people have about the Police.

You may believe the LEO that pulled us over had every right to do so, but if we didn't do anything wrong, then WHY THE F WERE WE PULLED OVER? We weren't speeding, tail-gating, swerving, stunting, squiding, etc. He pulled us over for the sake of pulling us over & admitted it freely. Even though I've never had a single dealing with the township in question, you can bet your bottom dollar my opinion of said township is not too favorable. See the thread Joey Dude started about the NCSP training motorcycle riders for an example. This is something the Police can do to work FOR the general populace & at the same time, improving the relationship with riders as a community.

http://vfrworld.com/forums/new-riders/21754-get-some-motorcycle-training-da-fuzz.html#post163389

Here's another way to look at it since I'm trying to make sure you clearly understand the point I'm making. Had he stopped stopped someone who was clearly & actually doing something wrong, I would have no problem with his actions & would support everything he was doing. That's not what happened. He deliberately chose to harrass the two of us. He clearly stated pulled us over because we LOOKED like we could go too fast if we wanted. So can anyone in any vehicle. This is total & complete BS & everyone with half a brain can figure that out.

If you don't agree, they we will agree to disagree.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

I guess DWB(Driving While Black) isn't the only random reason to pull some over anymore...

seems like RWATGATT(Riding With All The Gear All The Time) is now justification for a traffic stop...:mod::bs:

Damn...and I thought I'd be less likely to be pulled over wearing full coverage

 

Soundmaster31, I am in the fortunate position to give a Michigan specific answer to you being that I just so happen to be a MI LEO.

If you as the passenger are innocent of any wrongdoing, you do not have to present ID upon request.

It is worth noting that if you yourself as a passenger are guilty of a civil infraction (seatbelt) you are then required to present ID upon request.

Also worth noting that a MI police officer has the legal authority to order the driver and passengers to stay in or exit the car on a traffic stop depending on the situaion.

FYI, In my neck of the woods, while I'm on duty there is a VFR exception built into all traffic laws :thumbsup:

 

Yep KC, I think you are right. They are just picking on you for no reason. That cop probably has an Oedipus Complex.

So are you stuck at E3 or E4?

 

Man, I wish you were in Hillsdale in July 2007 :frown: lol .....M99 is just too long and straight for my good I was a good boy though... and stopped.:frown:


Thanks for the insightful answer though. I was wondering because I was riding in a car that the driver forgot to renew his plates (was busy taking care of stuff for the military and was late by a week) and local boy merged on to the highway and proceeded to blind the crap out of us with his spotlight just to run his plate and fish. We weren't speeding at all and even moved over to give him room to merge onto the empty highway around 9:30pm. He followed us off the ramp when we stopped to get gas and there go the cherries and berries. Asked the other passenger and myself if we had ID and then I don't remember if he asked to see them or if I voluntarily gave it up. I didn't have anything to hide so it didn't strike me as odd until I didn't have my license for the moment and was like waaaaaaiiiiitttt a minute!

How are the other guys in your area about asking for ID? They don't get an attitude and try to intimidate the subject if an innocent civilian refuses to give up ID to them do they? I assume that varies from officer to officer obviously and their current mood as well as the manner in which their requests are refused.

 

I am in NYC and F**k all Cops and kill their dogs and all their families (yeah I really mean it). I hate cops and if they try to stop me I run (whether I am on my bike, in a car or on foot I run). I am licensed and insured with no tickets or warrants na dI am gainfully employed. The reason I have no problems is beacause I do not deal with the cops at all. Some of the biggest idiots are cops. I do not care who thinks I am crazy or wrong, being the way I am is the only thing that works for me. I am not going to break any laws in public and if I want to do something illegal I go home or on private property or the track. If the dumb cops stopped bothering people for no reason they would have more time to deal with real criminals, but most cops will play it safe and mess with normal working people so they do not get shot. I do not care what anyone says about my attitude or opinion about stupid cops. As long as they leave me alone I am good and I will not do anything to justify their being able to ask me anything or stopme for anything. The Hell with the stupid wanna be Police. I do believe in law and order but that is not gonna happen when you have idiots as cops.

 

It is really a subjective thing, and varies from stop to stop, let alone officer to officer. Probably 1/3 of the guys I work with ID everyone all the time as a personal policy. More often than not it comes down to how the situation "feels." If the passenger seems overly nervous or is showing any kind of abnormal behavior (sweating heavily in December is a good one) they will usually get asked for ID.

Most cops don't intentionally intimidate to get what they are after on a stop. Emphasis on "most." There are cops out there that do try to intimidate their way to compliance, but most of the guys I work with believe that simple respect is usually returned and thus respect the rights of the citizens in question.

If the cop does get sh*ty about it, it is usually best to weight the cost vs. benifit of not giving your ID. If you don't have any kind of warrant, you are better off to let them run your ID and get on with your day, rather than get stuck on the side of the road for 45 mins. with a p**sed off cop while they get a K9 to shake down your buddies ride.

Your assumption is absolutly correct, it all depends on the specific officer and the mood of the officer in question.

Hope that answers your question, I can't speak for everyone, but that's my 2 cents on the issue. :redface:

 

C111 please move to East Tennessee. Two Friday’s ago 1:00 pm start up 129 right at start of the Dragon. State Highway Patrol road block. All cagers pass thru stop only scooters were stop. Harley rider just got a eyed, sport bikers got verbal warning if in one weekend 3 people get killed again they would return. Last year they almost closed the road.

 

"I am in NYC and F**k all Cops and kill their dogs and all their families."


Should we do it in that order or is that some NYC style we are not aware of. Do tell.

 

YEAH! Mabye we could start a "VFR Mafia"! We could put disembodied triple trees in their beds... Or encase their cruiser's tires in concrete and let it sleep with the fishes...

unbelievable :crazy:

 

Kind of rainey here on the left coast. I am guessing there is a full moon over NYC and parts of Jersey.

 

Again, I ask nicely, is there a point you're trying to make here? You have to remember, I'm kinda Cro Magnon so you need to spell it out reeeaaal slow for me.

My profile clearly states I'm an E-6.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

My son last summer went to Downtown Chicago to take some pictures of his friends tuner cars. They pulled in front of the Field Museum just off Grant Park to get some shots of the cars in front of this classic building and it's huge Gothic columns. Like all public buildings since 9/11 there is no parking in front of them. They all pulled into the no parking zone and noticed a cop at the end of the block. My son jumps out of one of the three cars and runs down to the cop and asks permission to park there while they take some pictures. I think the cop was shocked that they asked permission. The cop proceeds to tell them that the pictures would probably look better if they pulled on the sidewalk closer to the building. This cop then radio's to the other patrol car in the area and tells him that for the next few minutes he would be working with some college kids in the area and if he got a call about a group in front of the museum not to worry about it , he had it under control.

The kids had a great talk with the cop and at one point convinced him to turn his lights on so they could get pictures with the squad car. My son came home that night and told me what a great time they had with a Chicago cop. I'm sure the cop was happy to see some kids having a good time and not getting into trouble.

I think the cop was so happy to see kids treat him with respect that he went out of his way to show respect back.

BTW I never got a ticket I didn't deserve!

 

Here in LIttle Rock we have lots of MC cops, so they are usually pretty good about motorcycles. In some of the little hick towns in the country you have to be careful whether you are on a bike or in a car. Revenue from traffic tickets is a major source of revenue for them, so they stop you for every reason they can think of.

 

My mommy said I should stay away from people like you...

 

lol - I do not need anyone to tell an idiot like you to leave me alone. An look at what I said - "leave me alone" that is what makes you an idiot because I did nothing to you. And as for any of the stupid aforementioned statements, if you do not like my opinion so what - there is nothing you can do about it. Like I said I am licensed, insured, a Motorcycle coach, no arrest record, college educated, no warrants and gainfully employed. It is time the stupid idiots who try to parade around as a cop need to know there are some people who are tired of their stupid acts and it is time for them to deal with real criminals. Like I said the chicken s**it cops do not want to fight crime becaue they might get shot. They are not stoping crime or protecting people by harassing anyone while crimes and other atrocities are being commited. You can have you own opinion and do what you want. Like I said, I have no intention of doing anything illegal and I do not stop for cops anymore. F**k them, their dog, their family and they should all die!!! If you do not like it tooo bad you reap whay you sow here.