Is Harley D going???

interesting article about Harley, seems there looking for a bail out as well

link>>>>Harley-Davidson Seeking Federal Bank Bailout Funds - Dealernews<<<<<

 

If they are I wouldn't mind. To be Honest. Keep those damn noisy un-baffled straight piped V-twins away from my house at 5 in the morning.

 

Just what we need, another 4,500 jobs lost. Sad

 

Reg, i have to agree with you on this one, it seams that everyone is jumping on the band wagon ? and what are the hard working people getting ? a i owe you Coupon for a High Definition convector box, just to watch Tv after a hard days work ? couldn't we have found another time when things are better to do crap like this ? NO BAL OUT

 

Harley has already gone under once..... isn't that why we have AMF harleys running around(or sitting in garages rusting to bits) every type of vehicle company that is US "made" is having a hard time because they haven't been able to sell the big vehicles like they could 20 years ago. People want fuel economy and they, the car companies, are scrambling to try and catch up with the rest of the world on making more fuel efficient cars. Ford actually makes one, its a diesel and it gets outrageous gas mileage. but it is not sold here in the states...sounds crazy but I think I would be trying to get it sold here.

but thats me. oh, back on topic..

nah, they shouldn't get it. maybe they should sell their bikes at a decent price... maybe more will sell.
I'm grmpy and it 2 in the morning and I can't sleep

crusty AKA grumpyrider

 

Thank you Reg71 and Speed!

Is it me or why haven't I heard of Honda, Toyota or any other Japenese manufacturer asking for the bailout?

Maybe because they are some of the true Capitalists left in this whole mess.

BZ

 

Maybe they don't really need a bail out rather a moderate restructure to take in account the 20% sales downturn and are just after some free money like the Car makers are getting.

 

It is very comment practice for other countries to use their tax money in "reinvest" in their domestic products. Germany has been extremely successful in the past with recovering it's own market, some might say. Basically taking loads of their governments money and dumping it into domestic companies and making more expensive for companies to do business in Germany that aren't based out of German (higher taxes, tariffs etcs). At least that is how it used to be. I don't know how it is now with the European Union and if that has any effect. Used to be the big debate that separated the government parties there for some time. But the down side to this is that you are in a way doing away with free market. Then again there is thought that a consumer state doesn't last. So what do you do. And I believe Mitsu, the car company, has been on life support for many years. And is only kept alive by the government in Japan. But I feel the end is near for them. I think there last hope was that Daimler was looking at purchasing them but pulled out of the deal because they felt there was no hope in recovery with that asset. I guess they learned something from the error that was buying Chrysler.

There's not one 100% right answer. But I do believe that the last thing we need is for companies, at this point in our economic times, to start closing. I truly feel that we have no choice but to bail these companies out. We can't afford to have more displaced Americans. It is true that these companies have done a poor job at staying competitive with the current market, ie GM. I don't think that really applies to HD. I think HD knew it's market and was satisfied with its share. I really don't think that the Japaneses markers were really taking enough of their market that HD was concerned. Then again they might have made more of an impact. I just think the majority of HD's buyer would never consider buying a jap equivalent for less money. When you buy a Harley, you buy it because it's a Harley. At least that is what I'm told by some of my Harley buddies. Then factor in the "buy american". I think the biggest thing to hurt HD is current condition of the market. People aren't out jumping at the bit to buy toys right now. In the past couple of years people in this country were quick to take out a home equity loan and do some home improvement and buy some toys. This is what made the classic car market exploded and I'm sure had a big effect on Harley Davidson's sales. But know that option is not out there. People can't use their houses as ATM's and they aren't out in the market to create more debt for themselves. I don't think you can blame HD for not seeing the end of this cycle. What you can do is ask why didn't the take steps to insure that it didn't have this effect on them.

In the end, it's like I said. I really don't feel that we can afford for these companies to go out of busy in our current times. If we can, we should pull our resources together and invest our money into US companies. History has shown that a consumer state will not survive. I don't want to come off as some hillbilly shouting for the hilltops that we need to buy "American cause it's American". What we need is a competitive product produced in US. I own a Hyundai, Lexus, and Honda motorcycle because those companies produced a product that appealed to me and my needs. I can't say there is anything on the lot of Ford, GM, or Chrysler that would fulfill my needs like the vehicles I bought.

 

Titanium:

I mean that the Japanese companies have not come to the American government and asked for money...yet.

What business practices they do in their own home countries, or in Germany in you above example, that's their business. After all, its their soverign land. I specifically meant America.

BZ

 

yea, I don't think we will ever have to worry about a company based outside of the US asking our government for money. I assumed you meant that you thought they hadn't done the same thing that GM and Chrysler has in their own country.

 

Why not?
do they not have factories in the US?
Do they not employ people
Do they not use materials from the US?

Just there HQ is oversees.

Jap cars are still made in the us....

 

When you purchase, try to buy American made products as much as possible.

 

that is right, they do have factory that assemble cars in the North America but why would that entitle them to US Federal funds? The main reason for these plants to exist is to save these foreign companies money in tariffs. The flip side to that is that they create jobs in a market that needs jobs. One main issue they aren't burden with is the retired union works and how much of an impact they have had on the domestic makers.

I mean, seriously. Do you really think it would be plausible for a foreign based country to ask for money from our government for a bail out in the way our domestic companies? Who would back that? Do you think the congress would even set up a haring for such a thing?


Also I see you are from Canada. What about Nortel? Should they go the way of the dodo bird?

 

I would love to! But that gets back to the point that these companies have to reinsert themselves into the market in a different way than they have been doing for years. When these companies start producing a competitive product, I will not think twice about buying something made in the US.

See, I bought my Lexus because its what I wanted in a car. And there isn't one American made car that compares to my car. I wanted manual trans, rwd, and four doors. The only thing that fit into that equation was foreign cars at the time of the purchase. Not one thing on a ford or gm lot fit into that mold. As for my Hyundia, I compared what Ford and Chevy had on the lot for the same price as my Santa Fe. I could get a Ford Escape or a Chevy Equinox. Both of which were smaller and believe it or not felt a lot cheaper than the Santa Fe.

But this has nothing to do with HD. I strongly believe that they have had their share of the market and been happy with it. I doubt the volume of Japanese bikes that are look-a-like HD's and the Victory line up has much effect on HD's sales numbers.

 

Canada gave GM and Chrysler 4 billion dollars, and they certainly are not based there...

 

Haha, no i don't expect them to get a bailout. I was just pointing it out.
they contribute to the us econmie and are making a profit and selling cars.
I don't think the issue is the market,
I think it's the automakers who have been lossing cash for years even when the market was good.

And no i don't think Nortel should be bailed out, even though i have a friend that works there.

I also hate unions. the reasons are easy enough to figure out.

 

really? I was not aware....I have yet been able to understand our brothers to the north and I guess I never will.

 

As long as we dont have to go back to 700 cc hondas I will be happy.