Steering head bearings and fork oil

Hi all. I've got a 98 VFR with 46k on it that needs new steering bearings. While I'm digging into it, I'm also going to replace the fork oil. Is there a particular brand of bearings that is better than Honda? Also I'm debating going with tapered bearings, any thoughts on those? And finally what brand/weight of fork oil do you all recommend for the VFR? Thanks a lot for any advice you can give, it is GREATLY appreciated!!

 

I would get a set of ALL BALLS RACING tapered units, I installed them a year ago on my 93 and they worked wonders. I suspect too much track time crushed the OEM ball bearings, but the tapered units they sell (like $30-40) are the shiznit.

 

For God's Sake, Man!!

STAY away from putting cheap Chinese-made shit on your bike.

Allballs are made in China where "quality control" is non-existant, and if you don't believe that go look closely at any Chinese-made scooter. GO cheapo on some things, but not steering bearings!

QUALITY bearings are made in USA, Japan, or Germany ONLY!

tapered bearings have much more drag and friction than conventional balls, thus reducing front end feel and sensitivity to traction conditions.

 

I respectfully disagree. They are fine and a worthy mod.

 

Thanks for all the responses, I really appreciate it! Before I start a flame war, I should clarify what my goals for the bike are. I bought the bike for weekend fun and commuting to work on nice days, which here in the NW are few and far between I'm pretty much just looking to firm up the front end some, it's pretty sad right now, I'm not interested into turning it into a track bike or anything like that, just mostly a reliable ST bike that I can get into the twisties when the mood hits. I was debating about the tapered bearings mostly because I have no direct experience with them, a lot of my track riding buddies use them, but my track days are behind me so comfort/reliability is far more a priority than performance to a certain degree anyway <gr>

 

while my VFR does venture onto the track, the reason I got them was because I tore up the OEM balls riding on the track (guessing braking) and the OEM balls got flattened, I noticed I have a high frequency shimmy at 10-30mph, did research and discovered (in addition to the dreaded R/R) the VFR does have some issues with the headstock bearings. Further searching showed replacing with tapers was a legitimate solution.

based on the replacement, I can tell you that the shimmy is gone, not reappearing despite numerous track days and > 8K miles, I have no loss of feel, no more percieved friction - in fact they are smoother than the OEMS - or any of that.

furthermore, my bike is a 98% streeter and 2% tracker, not a track bike. As a testament to the machine in 2008 I did a track day on Sunday, commuted to work 50 miles each way Monday to Thursday, and then rode 500 miles in one sitting each way and back to Vintage Motorcycle Days in Ohio on Friday and Sunday.

 

STOCK bearings are not designed to last over about 40k miles, a normal replacement interval. Stock bearings should be regreased every 16-20k miles (it's in the Bible) and will last longer if properly repacked, a commonly ignored proceedure


I think the "allballs" name has you extra- masculine guys seduced, then putting the additional "racing" word together with it has put you over the top, sounding like something good.
but they're made with minimal quality control in China, nowhere near as good as US-made Timkin, Japanese Koyo or German FAG. Nobody wants FAG bearings even if they'e superior!! ( "not that there's anything wrong with that")

Please, someone, have you closely examined a Chinese scooter?? Cheap garbage!

 

gotcha, you dont like chinese bearings. they work for me in real life. lets move on, both happy in our beliefs.

 

I have 3 bikes with tapered roller bearings in the fork head (2 of them all balls).:bootyshake2:
it is 1 of the best mods i have ever done to any bike. The extra contact surface of the roller bearings actually makes the bike feel lighter by spreading the weight over more surface area (the last set of all balls i bought had timken stamped right on the race) In short do it you won't regret it!

:flamer::vtr2:

 

Oddly enough while researching this subject on line I came across this gem, I'm thinking that he spent WAAAY too much time with Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maint. I think though that I'm going with squirrelman on this one, it's bad luck to dis Jerry plus I have a "buy anything but Chinese" policy if I can, but I am going to try and find some tapered bearings, it seems like they are a good improvment over stock. Thanks for all the input, it helped a lot with the decision making process.

Yahoo! Groups

My personal fav of the discussion is this little rant -

The conversation started when someone suggested buying the "All
Balls" brand steering head bearings, to which I replied that I didn't think it
was a good idea because they are Chinese. Stating that I didn't think it was
a good idea was definitely due to quality issues, but my idea of quality
isn't simply limited to whether or not a part fits, is durable, and
works generally as advertised. This is the lowest level of quality,being
object oriented and nothing more. It is called "material quality". The
next level is called "motional quality", and is process oriented. Next is
"relational quality", which is customer oriented. After that is "total human
quality", which is human society oriented. This is followed by "total
biosphere quality", which is biological feedback cycle oriented. Then
comes "total planetary quality", which takes into account the totality of our
planet's interdependent cycles. The last is "total cosmic quality", which
concerns how what we do affects the entirety of existence. It may be
possible that "All Balls" have mastered up to the 3rd level, but I have my
doubts about any consecutive levels.

 

There are also ceramic bearings, although I haven't been able to find tapered roller bearings. While I have seen comparos of stock to tapered, and stock to ceramic, I have never seen a ceramic to tapered comparo anywhere.

As for a blanket anything that comes from a place or group, the same used to be said of Japan, and was even said about the US in the 1800's, compared to the Europeans, our textiles were thought of as crap, crass and cheap. The truth is always very different. Even now there are crap products made in the US, and likely always will be. But there are also some world leading, and likely always will be. The fact is that most countries have some crap stuff, and some good stuff; the ratio may be different but to make a blanket statement to the effect that just because it comes from x means it is crap, is wrong. You may have other reasons to avoid it; political, spiritual, etc. But let's not go to where we just degenerate a people just by group and just all by the actions/performance of some. That is where you get sexism, racism, anti-semitism, and all the isms.

 

i have little doubt that Chinese bearings may someday equal Japan's or US's, however, at present i believe (from observation) that they DO NOT.

Just go to Harbor Freight and compare their tools to Snap-on, Craftsman, MAC or other US-made quality tools; notice the difference.

China has chosen the "cheap/poorly made/disposable/ low price/low quality" segment of the market for now, and their quality standards IN NO WAY equal those in more developed industrial countries.

IF the "AllBalls Racing " bearings were properly labeled they would be called " Ching-Wah Industial" bearings, and how many would be using them?? ( Don't we all want more balls??)

 

I would use them regardless of origin name. they work.

 

Tapper is the way to go if one was going to the trouble to replace the bearings, Timken makes em, you just need to know the size and go to Bearings Inc. I found this out after I got mine. The ones I have are made by K&L they are out of Japan. got em through the Honda dealer a while back thinking I'd need them, plus was really sure I needed them with the head shake thing, ha that's a tire issue, nothing more. I have a set ready to go in now if and when, so I'm ready.

 

any bearing that fits is fine.....until they dent and get loose.

Check the Renolds numbers.....,

 

Sadly after much searching online and calling up every MC shop in the area, I had to break my China policy and go with the AllBallz brand, it was the only tapered bearings I could find. I didn't feel good about it, but I really want to be riding my bike instead of looking at it with the front end off and in pieces in my garage. Looks pretty pathetic doesn't it? Another week and I'll have trouble remembering where everything fits. I ordered them Saturday and got them yesterday, I figure worse case scenario, I'll be replacing them in 10 years instead of 15.

 

I thought I would let you all know that I've finished it off this weekend, whew! Rebuilt the forks, new oils and seals, wussed out on the springs, didn't replace them, sigh.. I know that one is going to come back and bite me in the butt, but I want to go with a full race tech and just don't have the bucks for it right now. I also finished installing the steering bearings and put on a new two brothers slip on. I am always amazed at what a difference a decent front end rebuilt does. Much more sharp and crisp in the corners, tracks perfect, no wandering at all. I'm not sure how much the improvement was due to the forks or the steering bearings, but I can't see how anyone who was removing the forks anyway wouldn't at least replace the oil. As far as the Allballz brand goes, it looks like I lucked out going with them. I spoke with the local Honda dealership shop manager about them. He had rave reviews on them, said they were highly recommended and good quality. He did mention to stay away from Pyramid (?) bearings, he said they were junk and go out really quick. Thanks for all your help and advice, it was appreciated!!

 

Sorry folks, quick off topic lurch here...

How about you quantify your "observations" for us. With proof. Show us some measurements you've taken that prove them inferior. How about some Rockwell hardness numbers. Until you do, this is all just one person going bla,bla,bla because they don't like China - countered by hundreds of claims that the opposite is true, they work as advertised.

Steering does feel a bit heavier with them, but it also feels more precise and they don't need to be adjusted as often, while lasting longer.

And I've got some other news for you - take a closer look at some of those Craftsman tools. They might be made in the Us, but by that they mean assembled. Most of their parts come from - you guessed it - China! Just like Harleys use half Japanese components! I've bought about as many good tools at Harbor Freight as I have bad ones at Sears. And I'll be damned if I pay out my ass for Snap On or Mac!

China has machine shops now. CNC machines cut the same no matter what part of the world they are in... and since they've been buying up all of our scrap metal by the thousands of tons for the last few years, I'm not so worried about the quality of the metal anymore either...

Rant off.