fuel injection

anyone fuel inject a 86 750 intercepter

 

worst idea since square wheels.....there's no need for the complexity.

if you can't fix your carbs find someone who can

 

Yipes! Why so harsh? That's an excellent idea with several benefits. In fact, that's on my 'wish list' of projects once I get some of the must-have's done.

There's a guy on the V4hondaBBS.com board that was fabbing an FI setup for his Magna. I'm not sure if he ever finished it though.

 

I bet if someone came up with a bolt on unit for the VFR, dozens of frustrated carb owners would jump on it.

 

I bet you are right. It would have to be priced right (no $1000 systems or anything) and fairly straightforward to install. Carbs are a hassle and I don't know anyone who likes to work on them. When you consider that they are possibly the most expensive system to repair (maybe even more than an engine rebuild) you will easily see the opportunity for something better.

 

I actually purchased the throttle body, injectors, air box and a few sensors from a '98 VFR800. Plan to build a MegaSquirt controller for it, and install the whole thing on my '96.

Anyway, this install more than likely won't happen till next winter, as the needed funds aren't here now. Still need a baro sensor and the MegaSquirt controller, and may need to get new (longer or shorter, whatever the measurements end up being) throttle and choke cables. Also have to figure out whether to go with a returnless fuel system or modify my tank to accept the fuel pump setup with return line from a '98+.

Why would I do all this? Because it's something different. Because I have a lot of elevation changes that fuel injection would be able to handle easier than me adjusting the carbs every ride. And because I may be able to. If it doesn't work, fine, I'll go back to carbs till I figure it out. In fact, this last Friday night, I pulled the carbs simply to install new jets (slow) and noticed that I had 3 (THREE!!) pilot screws missing (the ones with the D-head.) Found two of them (complete except for one o-ring) sitting on the engine case. How it was able to run, and very strong at that, is beyond me.

 

I was *this close* to building an MS setup a couple of years back. I'm kind of ticked that you can't buy just a builders kit anymore. Some places sell you the parts to put it all together but they are raping people on the prices. For what they charge I'd just buy one already built. I've also been waiting for them to work out the kinks of the MS+Spark controller so I can have a full engine management system.

Maybe you've found a secret Holy Grail of VFR power!!!!

 

thanks everybody for your input I just have this do fuel injection because my brother fuel injected his station wagon I was going to do my mg midget but ran into some more problems so the project is put aside thought maybe I could do the bike I just got this bike and new to motorcycle riding

 

The MSnS has been "worked out" for years. I have put it on a car with little problems, a friend of mine put it on his old cb750 with no prblems, and I know several people that have them on their 928s. If I ever have to do any serious work to the carbs on anything ever again I am definitely going with the MSnS setup.

 

i think FI was used, not for any performance advantage, but for economic (cheaper than carbs) and fuel emissions requirements only.

i see tons of FI probems posted here, as many as carb probems it seems.
there are about 7 or 8 pages in my SERVICE MANUAL in the CARB section, while some current bikes have 20 or 30 pages on FI, so which is simpler ??? besides, FI bikes mosty have jerky throttes and don't have the utra-smooth response at low speeds that a carbed bike has.

i'm thinkin' it woud be cheaper and more satisfactory to buy a used FI bike than to convert an older one.

 

Maybe, but the question is: would it be as much fun?

 

Maybe I missed all of those FI problem posts.

 

You seem to have a less than informed idea of what FI is, why it is used, and how effective it truly is. Honda used PGM-FI on race bikes in the early 80's, i'm sure they weren't trying to use it for emissions purposes.

My well tuned FI bike is just as smooth as any carbed machine while being a lot less of a maintenance headache. FI problems are usually associated with something having little to do with the actual FI components themselves.

Don't quote the number of pages in the service manual as an indication of increased difficulty. I can do with a laptop and ega in 2 minutes what would take a carbed bike owner an entire weekend, if not three or four weekends to get it right, if ever. Carburetor jetting is always a compromise, not true for FI. It is universally understood that a carburetor is one of the most inefficient metering devices ever created.

 

Pfff.... a good carbed bike is worth it's weight in gold. but that's just it. so is an FI bike. to many things to get a good FI system on the older version. I've looked into it, way to many little things. Thing is when either goes south, they're both a royal PITA. so there's no win win here.

 

Can I ask why you looked into FI, if a carbed bike is worth it's weight in gold? Just wondering that's all.......

 

Cuz when you get right down to it FI is the shits, LOL all that trick stuff, all that engine management goodies, plug and play. I mean come on now. But you know what, a well set of dialed up carbs are great too, neither one is fun to work on, FI has all it's electrical gizmos and carbs have all their vacuum issues, nether one is really all what its cracked up to be. theres no short cut, but when either one is in tune it's way nice. when not, what a PITA. Me, I just thought about this when the 5th gens came out and I was sure back then one could swap it out as back then that was a trick item if you know what I mean, Ha, not one component will swap out. but hey after all said and done like I said a many times thy carbed machine as it sits right now is a mighty fine machine. Besides, after all the research I've done it would be hard to beat the carbs, still something in the back of my mind says an FI 4th would be cool, just not really feasible, nor makes sense now.

 

some carbs, like Webers, are beautiful objects and most carbs are easy to work on,
BUT ONLY if you have experience or have done some studying..

fewer things can go wrong with carbs than FI, and most carb probems are owner-caused (bad storage conditions or going wild with jet changes).

 

When I look at the 20-30 pages on FI, I notice that 9/10 of them are on troubleshooting codes. If I had such detailed codes for my carbs, I would probably just deal with them. However, since I already have a very thorough understanding of FI, and have neither the time or money to research carbs to the same level, I must go where my strengths lie.:strong:

Unfortunately, I love the style of my 4th gen so much that if I bought a used FI bike, I'd probably spend even more money modifying it to accept a 4th gen body! :unsure:

 

If only carbs were as simple as well-engineered FI... Modern FI is a joy, but requires the right tools (computer). Carbs are a more complicated instrument, but one can work on them without much in the way of special tools. But both have LOTS of subtle failure modes (vacuum leaks and gunking up of ports vs. sensor failures/calibration issues).

But I would love to have the access to my carbs that I have in my WRX and 350Z. I plug in a laptop and get immediate access to every variable, with enough to know if it's running rich/lean and can do this WHILE it's going down the road.

I could probably re-tune a FI bike (if it had enough sensors and a wideband) in a couple hours, without taking anything off the bike. Carbs would take me that long to do one jet swap to see if they were correct mains or not... There's just no way to tune a carbed bike without pulling the carbs a couple times to swap jets, needle positions, float heights, etc.

Hey, maybe I'm just lazy...