Two questions for seasoned VFR riders

Hey everyone. I'm new to riding, a new VFR owner, and new to the board. I've got two questions.

I was discussing cornering mechanics, how to's, and what if's with a friend of mine who been riding several years. He was giving me advice for what to do if I went into a corner and my inexperienced brain starts blinking the TOO FAST alarm. (FYI, I'm a cautious person and do not plan to be out racing around pushing as fast I can go, but I do recognize that this will probably happen at some point) His recommendation is to lean it over farther and trust the bike can corner better and faster than I can expect it to. He also said that if you have enough room I can stand the bike up, brake, then lean it back over. The third option he said I could use would be to trail brake into the curve using only the rear brake so as not to shift as much weight forward onto the front tire causing the front tire to slide. I then reminded him that my VFR has linked brakes and that hitting the rear brake pedal will also apply some braking force to the front tire. He's never ridden on a bike with linked brakes so he was not sure if trail braking the rear brake would be a good idea. So can you trail brake into a turn on a VFR with linked brakes? Is a good option or just a possibility but not a good option.

My second question is for any hefty riders with the ABS system. I'm 6 foot 0 inches tall and weigh about 300 lbs (something that I am working on dropping). What do you other big guys set your suspension preloads too? I'll just be riding alone for quite awhile until I'm really confident in my riding abilities, so no 2 up riding for me right now.

 

As a fellow "big" rider of a 05' without ABS (6'0 - 260 and shrinking) the stock suspension SUCKS! If you are worried about any mods for your bike, I would look at upgrading there first. Some people like Ohlins (if they can afford it) or Penske. Once the economy gets a little better I plan on making the decision on one of these 2 options.

As for the turning option, there is a great series of videos on Youtube on this subject. When I get off of work I'll post them up for you. they really explain the whole mechanics of weight distribution, speed and body position in relation to entering a curve. Good stuff!

 

The best advice I have about what to do when you find yourself in a corner and you think you're going too fast:

- DON'T cut the throttle. Keep smoothly on the gas.
- Force yourself to look ahead through the turn, NOT off to the side of the road where you're afraid you're going to go. You will usually go where you look.
- If you need to turn tighter, push on the inside bar, i.e. the handlebar that pointing the direction you are turning. Push right to go right and vice versa. This may seem counterintuitive but it works and it's a good thing to practice so you can do it without thinking when you don't have time to think.

It's true that your bike can lean farther and corner faster than you probably feel like it can. Work on getting smooth through turns, with one steering input at the start and your eyes on the exit. Keep a smooth throttle and avoid the death grip on the bars.

HTH - Paul in MI

 

I wouldn't recommend trail braking; I tried it and the bike wants to stand back up instead of continuing the same direction.

With the suspension preload as long as you're not experiencing a pogoing effect going through turns just leave it alone. But as you get more practice and get confident with faster turns you'll probably find that the bike does an annoying pogoing transitioning through curves. Only then I would recommend tightening up the suspension.

As for leaning, as long as you're not dragging the footpegs you'll be ok. An advanced topic is to get the knee out for further leaning while increasing traction but I recommend mastering the basic sitting down lean FIRST. Here's this thread on body position: http://vfrworld.com/forums/riding-advice/17912-body-position.html

There is quite a bit of advice on this forum and you can use the search feature to find them.

 

cornering and smooth riding are also discussed quite authoritatively in a series of books by Keith Code entitled "A Twist of the Wrist"

your friend's advice is good, but learn about "countersteer"

 

Thanks for the info

I definitely plan on walking before I run. I took the MSF BRC before I even bought the bike and I've already purchased alot of high quality gear. I'm not a huge risk taker so I have no plans on pushing it too hard, but I imagine I've going to have a couple of "oh craps!" at some point due to a misjudgement of the curve going in. The whole reason I want to ride is cornering in the twisties, not pure speed or anything, I enjoy the curves.

I'm not going to push it though. Back in high school when I learned how to snow ski I went every wednesday to the ski slopes for 5 weeks straight. I spent 4 straight weeks on the green circle runs that didn't even start at the top of the mountain. All my friends kept telling me I was ready to go to the top and do the harder runs. I waited until week 5 spent a couple of hours warming up on the easy runs, then went to the top. By the time I stepped it up I was really ready and never felt out of control and didn't fall once. I'm a pretty good skier now, especially for a guy my size (though I was much thinner back when I started).

I intend to take my riding the same way. I want to get good at counter steering and body position. I found the MSF BRC a little frustrating since I thought it hard to experience and work on counter steering when you never do more than 20 mph. We were usually going slower than that since over half my class was middle aged ladies new to riding who rode crusiers. Even at the end of the second day several of them still seemed pretty nervous on those little Suzuki GN125's. It's hard to countersteer when you going into a curve at 8-10 mph.

It seems that for regular street riding applying the brakes in a turn is not the best option 99% of the time. I don't intend to be braking in a turn. We'll see how that goes though with my noob brain. :smile: The MSF BRC really brought home how important looking through the turn is.

My best friend is an experienced rider and puts about 12,000 to 15,000 miles per year on his GSXR 750. I'll be riding with him alot asking him to observe me, critique me, and show me some drills to practice when I'm out riding.

I've already read Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist II" twice. Thanks for the other book suggestions. I will check into those.

My bike is arriving later this week, so I'm really looking forward to getting out on it.

 

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the VFR. The first thing I'd recommend is getting the suspension set up correctly; new correct rate fork springs and rear shock. VFRs are notoriously undersprung for pretty much everyone and doing this one mod will increase your confidence and make the bike easier to control. It can be expensive but you will love the results.

As for cornering, all i can say is practice, practice, practice. You shouldn't even be thinking about trail-braking at this point; that is an advanced skill and one that can get you in trouble in a hurry if you don't know what you are doing. Practice looking at the apex then through the corner. Practice your situational awareness. Practice using and trusting your peripheral vision. Practice your consistency and being smooth on and off the throttle and brakes.

Don't worry about getting a knee down or any of that other crap; a VFR can lean over way farther than most people realise. If you enter a corner too hot, LEAN IT OVER MORE! Your brain will be screaming at you to hit the brakes, stand it up, etc. Tell your brain to shut up, and lean it. Pretty soon you will lose the panic reflex and know what to do automatically. Eventually you will get to the point where you can judge a corner as you approach/enter it and make adjustments to your entry on the fly.

The only time you should use the rear brake is at a stop light.

 

Not true, but...http://motorcyclebloggers.com/tech-talk-articles/brakes-101/trail-braking/

 

OK here are the videos I wrote about earlier. He talks about body position and demonstrates on a stationary bike. Lots of good talk...

Body position Part 1

Body position Part 2

 

great advice!!:thumbsup: Nick Ienatch is a better book than keith codes IMO
join some local riding groups aswell. I learned allot form some of the more seasoned riders. pick your group rides carefully! and never feel pressured to ride over your comfort level.
good luck and have fun!

 

that was a good read. i use back brake occasionally to scrub a little speed off on a left turn but never on a right hand turn while hanging off I'm not sure how its possible. lightly is defiantly the only way whether its front or back brakes

 

From your link:

I stand by my statement. The OP is looking for basic information, not advanced skills.

 

I'll offer a suggestion, If you really want to learn, learn from the professionals. Don't expect to gain anything from posting on an open forum, unless freddie spencer or keith code or reg pridmore are answering your inquiry. If you attend a riding school, there is no ego involved, the riding coaches don't want or care to tell how great they are or how experienced they are.....they want you to become a better rider and they are coaches because they KNOW what they are talking about. Invest in yourself and go learn from the pros.

 

2 quick things

your not on a track so here they go.

If your think your going to fast slow down before the corner.


If your in the corner and the road surface is good and your thinking I am going to fast.
A) Relax
B) Look where you want to go
c) Keep on the throttle or even slight accelerate.

this will tighten your corner.

Do NOT break in a corner.

the front break is just bad in a corner, if your pushing it or panic and slam on the front break you will crash. The bike will slam down and you will wonder what the heck just happened.
When people say don't slam the front break in a corner, they mean it.

This is why relaxing is good, on a sport bike it is easy to break too hard.

You can use the rear break, but unless your on the track trail breaking the rear break will "stand the bike up" and thus you will go wide. This can be a bad thing if it is not expected. If your going around a corner fast and break expecting to slow down but now your drifting wide, so you break harder making it worse you can end off the road.
SO it is best to expect this.
You can try this, go around a fairly fast corner at a reasonable speed, lightly tap the rear break...your now going straight. Play with it and get a feel for it. In an emergency it is the quickest way to get a bike upright.

This is useful if you need to stop suddenly in a corner(omg a deer, and burning semi on it's side..ahh i need to stop). On a bike you Generally corner, or you stop.

You only have so much traction, if your tires are resisting lateral forces, the added breaking force will cause a slide.

Now all that scary stuff..

Basically get comfortable and if you do find yourself in bad situation relax, look ahead and be smooth.

for 95% of the riders out there, the VFR corners better than they do. your friend is right in this regard, the bike will probably be fine and have faith.
but be careful as if you keep pushing it in this fashion you will find the bikes limits.



But in saying this you really should take a course.....i think everyone should.
also this advice is not for the track, racing it and pushing hard are different.

 

I agree, but riders should experiment and learn these from professionals.
and experiment with them in a controlled fashion.

ie) "Okay, that forum guy said if i do the hokey pokey in a right turn i'll feel the bike settle down into the corner better. I know this corner well so i'll take it at 3/4 speed to see what he's talking about"

this is far better than.

"omg i am going into this corner a little to fast...okay that guy said to do the hokey pokey and...now what was i doing with my left foot in and shaking it about...oh shiat look at that tree"

 

The biggest mistake most noobs make is taking incorrect lines in & out of the corners, if you work on your smoothness & concentrate on taking the correct line through a corner you'll be much better prepared to handle those "oh shit" moments, slow in and fast out is pretty good advice on learning how to become smooth...