ABS or Non ABS?

I'm curious - do race cars use ABS? I don't think they do since news clips almost always show smoke coming from locked up wheels as a car smashes into a wall. If ABS is such boon to automobiles, why don't the professionals use it when they're at work?

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and has the power to choose whatever options they want on a vehicle. However there are a few bits that need to be addressed. This isn't meant as a personal thing because I have the utmost respect for KC-10FE for his forum contributions, and more importantly, his job. But...

Automotive ABS has been around in passive form since the 70s, and in electronic form since the early 80s. It wasn't even common place on all cars until this decade! Motorcycle ABS has been around a much shorter period of time. If the feds have only recently deemed ABS a requisite safety feature on cars, I'm sure bikes are on the roadmap.

Maybe you should try it. I have, so have a lot of motorcyclists with ABS. The continuous "pulsing" can occur at a very high rate of speed (15-30Hz)--much like a lamp dimmer in your home. The brake calipers don't literally start pulsing like a turn signal.

These systems have been evolving for a very long time, and a lot of R&D has gone into even little things like "How wheel slip provides the maximum amount of lateral grip?"

Sliding tires are not reliable at shrugging off forward momentum. On a gooey slab of pavement, maybe. On a smooth slab of blacktop, not so much. On any surface with leaves or even dust, bleh. However rolling tires will allow the brake rotors and pads to consistently shed that energy in a controlled manner.

Same here--and ABS didn't engage.

That should illustrate how little ABS would need to intervene except in the most incredible of circumstances where you might actually need it the most.

 

ABS and even traction control are present on some race cars. Also, a lot of people who track their cars rely on ABS (I have!). There are shitty systems and there are good systems. Don't let the ABS on an early 90s Olds define what ABS should be.

 

OHVFR is spot on. No Professional Driver of anything wants ABS. They possess (dare I say this in mixed company) superior skill than the normal rider. While I'm sure all on the forum are quite adequate riders, there are most likely very few, if any, "real Pros." The truth is that we live in the real world, drive in real situations, and several factors enter into emergency brake situations.

Professionals train and condition themselves to operate in that highly stressful situation. As a result they can remain composed and perform highly skilled braking and evasive manuevers at extreme speeds without batting an eye lash. To the contrary, your average Soccermom in the Suburban when faced with a vehicle pulling out in front of her in traffic will freak out, slam on the brakes, scream and tense up.:scared: Unfortunately, fine motor skills flee most people in a fearful situation leaving predominately gross motor skills to take over, in other words, grab some brake and hang on. In some situations, thats all you may be able to do. ABS is perfect in that real world situation. Lets face it, most people don't have the time or opportunity to train like the pros so we have to work with what we have. Think of ABS as the great equalizer between great riders and the rest of us.ope2:

The point is (and yes there is a point:yawn Honda has engineered a good braking system. The ABS works very smoothly. To tell the truth, I've experienced the ABS only once (Thank God) since I've had my 6th Gen and it worked great. Now admittedly I'm definitely not a Pro, and I can't tell you about linkedABS to non-linkedABS platforms and straight line stopping distances and all that:bs: My reasoning is that ABS, according to myself and Honda, is a proven, beneficial technology, so why wouldn't you get it if available? Do you NEED ABS? Of course not! You really don't even NEED a motorcycle for that matter. I suppose we could all go back to riding horses,:stickhorse: they stop on a dime and save gas. There are far too many pros for ABS than cons.

Proud Member - Sixth Gen Militia - 1st VTEC Battalion

 

I've tried to search more info on the linked brake system. Can anyone direct me to a
thread related to this system?

As far as ABS, from this thread, it's your $$. You want it get it!! I like it for my car but
never have I rode a bike that had it. Might be interesting...

Thanks!!

 

I do not think I have heard one reason not to get a bike with ABS. Maybe a little extra weight and it makes the bike a bit more complicated. Like more stuff to go wrong I guess. I think there is a very good argument to be made that ABS on a bike might be a very good idea. It hurts to hit things and it hurts to hit the ground and then hit things if the rear locks up at a bad time. From what I understand of ABS is it is made to slow you down as fast as possible while keeping the bike and yourself safe. That seems like a good thing.

 

I don't like ABS.

In fact I decided any brakeing system on a bike is worthless so I removed mine.

I now employ the 'Fred Flinstone' method of stopping. It has its drawbacks, but I find it effective for most stopping situations.

BZ

 

Ya or like the big city bicycle guys with no brakes who just skid sideways or something to stop. I wonder how long it takes to get that down good and comfortable.

 

The linked brakes are a great help to me. I have no idea how much more the ABS would add to my skill. I do my best to avoid situations where the tire grip would break loose. But there is always the UNKNOWN. Maybe someday I'll add a 6th gen ABS to my stable, then I'll find out.

 

The people dissing ABS are full of BS. Sorry
not even race bikers perfectly threshold break 100% of the time in perfect conditions on a known surface.

ABS in no way affects threshold brealing so a perfect rider will notice no diffrence but since such riders do not exist 100% of the time there is abs.

Lets you break a little harder without worrieng about a crash, and should you over do it it will save your ass.

also in a panic situation it will save your ass

in a bad road condition it will save your ass

If it does not save your ass then it did nothing and certantly harmed nothing.

Why wouldn't you get it? a thousand dollers is cheep for this.

 

YEAH,.....what he said:smile:

 

Oh,yeah,
I'm only guessing, but I suppose that we don't find ABS on supersport bikes yet is because it would add wieght and cost to the bike.
Any SS bike that wieghed,say,10lbs more and cost a few hundred bucks more than it's competitor would suffer on the sales floor.
We all know these bikes are sold by the #'s on thier spec.sheet and that the target audience (young males) are immortal,so why would they buy a heavier,more expensive bike???


Like I said before,I can threshold brake like anybody without ABS and dare I say stop exactly the same(without invoking ABS)
However,if I slam on the brakes to full lock and let the ABS do all my thinking,yes I believe it would take longer to stop.I think that's where all the comparisons we have seen say ABS increases stopping distance.
On the flipside,if joe blow without ABS hammers on the binders in a moment of panic his stopping distance will be on his ass!!!

 

I did not know ABS would wait until the wheel locks to kick in. That is cool. That would mean a "pro" rider would never even engage ABS if all went well all the time with his or her braking abilities. On another bike I did lock up the rear for a while. A car missed a stop sign and just busted out right in front of me. The rear locked up before I even knew what happened. I am not a pro I guess.

 

Yes, an expert that never locks the brakes in the first place would never ever know ABS was even there. I'm no expert rider, and ABS has never engaged on me except for when I've deliberately stabbed the brakes to make it do something.

 

I would buy the ABS model if I were buying new. I was about to respond to Taz's post by talking about the Real World of street motorcycling on crowded highways with their crappy surfaces, unexpected obstacles, etc. but, gee, I guess I don't have to do that anymore.

 

I have it on my fjr I just aquired..., Love it! No, ive never needed it, so far....sometimes its fun just laying into it a seeing how short it does stop! wow..best part is the ability to steer while hammering the brake..THAT is the real advantage, (just like cars) not just stopping in a straight line,which is no big deal. It also requires some mind work and practice to make yourself do the steering while on the brake..not normal.and not sure I would actually do it in a emerg, but at least its there if I think of it...but it sure does work! And for me if it works once to save my ass it will be worth every penny! Will never own a bike without it as I can't tell its there otherwise.No sign of it unless a panic stop. ABS would be the only reason i would go back to a 6th gen But to each their own right?

 

I agree with powerslave
weight is the reason you don't see it on superbikes.
I also suspect that it is the reason they don't use them in racing cars as well.
Lighter is faster.
And if any of you think that you can react faster than a computer on a consistent level.
I have your red cape. you need to come get it.
No i dont have ABS on my VFR and no I don't think I need it either.
but if I had a choice to make, I would get it and hope I never needed to use it.
I don't have superbiker skills and I am willing to bet 98% of you don't either.
my 2 pennies