How close do you follow ?

Sort of a branch off from speedstreetz "whellie" thread where Buzz posted a ride Vid " YouTube - 062808 Klickitat Ride 2 " which showed off a great road nice corners but besides corners it also showed the camera bike getting intimate with each leading bikes six. A great effect for the vid maybe but for general riding thought it looked too close at times leaving little room for supprises.

In the photo's below the Motorcycles in question were obviously caught out by an "unknown" unfortunately resulting in 5 bikes written off ( 3 by fire 2 by forest ) , the road surface melted with severe traffic disruption and some of the riders injured taken to Hospital.







The accident in question happened a while ago but rather than dwell on what occured ( was told at the time ) was thinking it would be great to see what sort of gaps most riders leave. In Cage or on bike find myself using landmarks like signs or trees counting out 2.5 to 3 Seconds in my head regardless of the speed but also have also followed behind skilled Sports bike riding friends who have ridden together for over 15 years and often admire how gracefull they appear sort of like swooping swallow pairs weaving closely around each other as they dart their way through the tight twisties.


Which leads to the threads question:

How close do you follow the rider infront and does it change if or when the red haze hits?

 

About the same as you, three seconds. I also prefer staggering to directly in line.

 

How Close

Over her in New Zealand I am afraid to admit we have some of the worst cage drivers in the world and so in addition to watching other riders whilst in formation you are also keenly aware that you are surrounded by complete idiot other road users who seem obilivious to riders on two wheels.Our Ulysses Club which is a group of over 40's riders offer subsidised tuition to inexperienced riders and give training in staggered formation riding,emergency braking procedures,counter steering etc.My maxim is only ride with riders you know and can trust and always leave a margin for error ,yours or someone elses.

 

I follow a MINIMUM of 2 bike lenghts when I ride with an experienced rider.

With a not so experienced rider, it's usually more like 5 bike lenghts.

This is one of the things I can't stress enough in my MSF classes, NEVER, but NEVER, EVER, EVER ride directly next to another rider. Unless of course you like crashing. Let the HD retards do the parade routine.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

I'm always at least 3 bike lengths behind. And I'd like to add that I always ride within my capabilities and I'd rather lag behind than to risk a crash just to keep up with the rider ahead.

A few times I rode with a buddy and he was showing me some routes that he knew like the back of his hand and I lost him several times because I just didn't know the area well enough to go faster.

 

I am sorta surprised to see "bike lengths" as a unit of measure in this post already. Linear distance between moving vehicles is quickly offset and made unsafe when you increase speed. I believe the best measure is time, such as stated by John and LGN. With time, when you increase speed, you automatically increase your distance directly proportional to the speed you attain. And I also agree that we should be staggered as opposed to side by side or directly behind.

I recall back in the middle of the last cntry, in Manitoba they preached three seconds. Here in BC they say 2 seconds. Personally I do not believe two seconds is quite enough.

Now the question. What do I do? Well I would like to say that I always give it three seconds but I would be lying. My ears are turning red as we speak.

When following another bike, I stay well back. At least two seconds. I never want to croud a fellow scooter hooter. When I am behind a cage, I tend to follow a little closer, but only if I can see though or around that cage. Following something I can't see around, I revert back to the two second rule.

Understand people, I am not saying this is correct, this is what I do and I accept the risks involved. We "should" all follow the time rule and I would suggest 2.5 to 3 seconds is a very good place to start.

 

Good point made a couple of times here, find it happens on a group ride with a the benefit of extra of additional viewing distance when touring on backroads and peoples concentration wanes a little. This usually disolves as people start setting their own lines leading into the twisites reforming naturally again as the road settles.

Another good point, usually when behind the cage heading up a mountian pass I'll creep a little closer looking for a safe opportunity to pass, guess the additional risk is tempered by heightened alertness and quicker reactions, having to revert back to 2.5 seconds is the area I curse coming up behind and trying to pass SUV's or Caravans.

 

As of right now I am struggling with this very issue. If we're group riding it's not that hard but on the highway or in the city it's just not working. I leave a space that is comfy for me and some jacka$$ fills it. Even a two second gap on the hwy goes down to 1 or 1/2 a second in a blink of an eye. Steady highbeams usually makes them go away but still. Here it seems if there is space for a car to fit, one will try and fit it there. Can't think of a solution really other than constantly slowing to increase the gap again...

 

Country group rides were in my mind when posting, unfortunately congested city traffic is a completely different animal where you either feel like you are yielding all the time or ride shorter gaps to 100% alertness while commuting. Luckily the VFR helps with a semi upright riding position, good mirrors and brakes. :smile:

 

Oo no doubt probably to close for a many here, but thats just me.. I'm with Jason, leave to much room just asks for others to jump on in. and so goes the cat and mouse game. So I tend to be very offensive as well as very defensive and in being that way I'm probably to close for a bit Now on rides in groups it's a staggered thing probably 2-3 bike lengths. getting wider as speed increases.

 

Y'all need to cut me some slack. I'm from NJ. Ask ANYONE who's driven here, if you leave the "recommended" following distance, that is an open invitation to some NJ :asshat: to cut you off. I know I put NJ down every chance I get but this is one thing that it is absolutely the gospel truth. Anything you've ever heard about following distance simply does not apply in NJ.

When I ride in another state, say NC, I actually need to adjust for the first couple of hours.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

I hear ya KC and don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to jump down anyone's throat. Like Jayson said, same hold true out here. And Like I also said, I don't always practice what I preach. I just wanted to point out that to use the time formula is probably, in an ideal world anyways, far better. What is becoming clear here is that those responding to this forum anyway, are at least using some formula for determining a following distance and this is a step in the right direction I think you will agree.

BTW, I haven't noticed, Do you put NJ down regularly?

Cheers.

 

Drafting is most effective at a following distance of less than 2 feet.
However, I like the three second rule myself. After a few drinks, I like to follow several hours behind.

 

3-5 seconds and I never ride next to anyone.

 

One could only wish that traffic would allow you to keep that distance here. Leave that kind of room here and someone will get out of bed and hit the road just to fill the void.

 

OK, I stayed off the wheelie thread :vtr2: & kept my mouth shut, becaues it got to passionate on both sides :rant: & no one needed to hear my opinion (or ever does :tongue.

But this, well - KC10, The HD groups & rides I've ever been on had stagard positions , & a safety rider (Often me) that freelanced around making hand signals for others to back off & make more safety room (Most other clubs I've seen do the same).

For me, It's all about time/speed envolved to give me the appropiate distance judgements to manuver if something happens, & something happens a lot !

From AssHat drivers, road hazards, acts of god , natures (animals, & run offs). shit happens & is better to be prepared than not.


But as in the picture shown & KC10's training should agree, I would bet that one rider F/U'd or delt with a road hazard & the riders behind "TARGET FIXATED" & ended with not manuvering & ran into the 1st bike like dominos Where you look is where you will go :wink:

We ride M/C's & that by itself is dangerous.
So just ride smart, & Safe, because you can't ride if your in the hospital :sick: or Dead :rip:!

 

it really depends upon the skill level of the folks you are riding with

 

Just stumbled onto the original Kawasaki forum Thread containing the full story, an interesting read if you have time with lessons learnt about Group riding the hard way.

Kawasaki Sportsbike Riders Club - Australia - Online Forum • View topic - The Putty BBQ - A Pictorial

 

The draft thing always amazed me, I never experienced it on the race track though. Road bicycles we ride fairly close a few inches off peoples back wheel.

Far as following distance, when I ride with people, I wana see around them so I ride staggered. Never directly in-back of anybody. Depending on how fast I leave 2 seconds possibly. On dah highway, I leave aboot two cars maybe, always looking past them and down the road :smile: however in a high traffic envirnment (like rush-hour) I need to follow closer cause some lousy, slack jawwed mouth breathing piece of shit cager is gona cut my gonads off :tongue:

 

I have a big "personal space" bubble. Walking in the mall AND riding!