gas prices

With gas prices being what they are currently & the uproar the public is raising, you would think people would change their habits. I'm here in Kommiefornia at the moment & I see lifted trucks every other vehicle & KA is the most expensive place in the lower 48. Doesn't seem to me anyone cares.

I know I DO NOT drive my truck except due to neccessity.

I do believe the INSTANT a realistic, non-hyped hybrid becomes available at a reasonable price, I don't think they will be able to make them fast enough. When I say non-hyped, I mean something that actually does what it says, meaning the Prius is out since it is a joke.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

I believe that our current society is one in which most people think they should be able to sit back and get what they need handed to them. They will complain bitterly about something, but expend no effort to change their own behavior or inconvenience themselves in any way.

Having said that, some people are upside down on their big SUVs. They were sold on the 'low monthly payment' and tax breaks that were available, and now they are in a situation where the market for said vehicles has dried up and they can't sell it for what they owe on it.

Fact of the matter is, they can't make the Prius fast enough. But I would like to know why it is a joke? Seems to me that and EPA rating of 45 mpg city is pretty impressive. I know several people who regularly get actual 50+ mpg city.

As for using a motorcycle to commute to lower fuel costs... Is it more effective for four people to ride four motorcycles to work, or for those same four people to get into a Prius and carpool to work?

 

I'll come right out & say it, if ANYONE told you they get 50+mpg out of a Prius, they lied to you. I personally know 3 people with one & not one of the 3 get better than 42-44, ever. The ONLY way someone is getting 50+ with a Prius is if they drive it in slow motion. Every auto magazine that ever tested a Prius has blatantly said they don't get anywhere near their mileage.

Here's why the Prius is a joke:

The Toyota Prius goes for $27K due to demand & dealer markup. They have no power & simply do not get their advertised mileage. They are packaged around the hybrid system so their interior suffers.

The Toyota Corolla can be very easily had for $17K (the CP on this mission I'm on has one) & they get 35-37 all day long. They have reasonable thrust & reasonable ergonomics.

Now, $10K buys LOTS of gas. $10K = 2500 gallons. 2500 gallons = 90000 miles @ 36mpg. Now, lets drop the mileage to 32mpg. 2500 gallons @ 32 mpg = 80000 miles. Let go even further down to 30mpg. There are any number of cars available that get 30 mpg. 2500 gallons @ 30 mpg = 75000 miles. So, what do all these numbers mean? A person needs to own a Prius & drive it for 12K-15K miles a year for 3.5 years to recoup the cost of the priveledge of driving a stupid hybrid & break even.

My GTI easily returns 32 mpg on a regular basis. It has never returned worse than 30mpg in 2 years. The GTI has ridiculous amounts of interior room & will obliterate any Corolla or Prius in any performance situation. Getting great mileage is awesome but I would much rather get decent mileage in exchange for real world performance.

Due to the cost of motorcycle tires that last 3k-9k, commuting on a bike might not be a cost effective solution for most people. I live 8 miles from my office & work irregular hours. So, for me, it is a cost effective solution. We NEVER drive my truck for normal stuff anymore, only when we have to. It has made a very large contribution to my bank account. If I save 2.5 tanks of gas in my truck, that's how much my Road Attack tires cost.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

The articles I've read have been critical of the mileage estimate for the Prius when highway driving is involved. The Prius' mileage absolutely suffers when the gasoline engine is running continuously. However, I also know a number of people personally who drive them, and when used for surface street commuting in stop-and-go traffic I believe they will get the mileage people are talking about.

So your comment about it being a joke is based on the economics. I'll buy that. Dealer markup isn't happening where we live, but a top-of-the-line Prius is still about $26k MSRP, and while they aren't marking them up, they're not dealing either.

My wife and I ran some numbers on the weekend. We compared her 1994 Camry with a 2008 Scion xD with a 2008 Prius, using the EPA numbers from fueleconomy.gov. If she gave away her Camry for nothing and paid cash for a new vehicle, it would take her about 15 years to make the Scion pay for itself, and I believe 22 for the Prius (we base the calculations on a steady $4 / gallon price of fuel). Even though the Scion has lower fuel economy, it's cheaper price offsets the fuel savings sooner.

Most people don't give a rat's patootie about performance. For many of the people buying and driving hybrids, it isn't about saving money, it's about making a statement.

BTW, I disagree about the Prius interior. I think it's quite roomy and comfortable.

 

I can't say I agree with the statement about performance. 15 years ago, most full size trucks had 125-150 HP. Now, an UNDER-POWERED one has 275. I would say performance is the #2 priority for 90% of vehicle buyers. If it wasn't, think of how easy it would be for companies to increase MPG.

From what I understand, Toyota doesn't deal on anything other than the Tundra. I've seen them marked down to the tune of $6500. The Prius in NJ is usually marked up at least $2000. I personally haven't seen a Toyota interior yet that I've liked but that's why they make chocolate & vanilla I guess.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

Never did work out the point of the Prius, for commuting those not on motorcyles should use full electric for inner city and intra suburb and small turbo diesel cars larger city, suburd commuting, when coming home from nightshift have counted on average 11 single occupant cars/SUV's heading into the City to every vehicle shared most of the time not moving above 5 mph.

Better still those people not able to ride a motorcycle should be commuting in cars like these as an interesting alternative.

 

Interesting. My wife routinely gets 51-52 in her Prius. If your interested I can send you a copy of the log she has been keeping. (I've only done the math on it once, but it was 52 point something) As for power, on the way to the airport last month I got past two semis, car got from 45 to 90 as fast as I needed it to. If they're only getting around 45mpg the first thing I would check is to make sure the HVAC is not on AUTO. The car will turn the AC on (which requires the engine) to keep the temp constant. The car could actually get better gas milage if Toyota biased the control system more toward teh electric motor. Still can't figure out why the engine comes on when we're backing out of the driveway.
The interior of the Prius is HUGE. That is part of the reason we chose it over the Yaris or other smaller Toyotas. I'm 6 foot and long leged and I can sit in the back seat with the front all the back and my knees don't come close to the seat.
Although, for a single person comuter you're right about the economics.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, as I believe the percentage of car buyers who care about performance that highly is much, much smaller. If it were as high as you estimate there would be far fewer Camrys, Corollas, Yaris, and so on on the road.

My parents just bought a Camry Hybrid and were able to dicker on it. I suspect it depends entirely on the region in which you live.

I loved the interior in my '89 Supra Turbo. The Mark IV Supras had a pretty nice interior also. My '95 Lexus SC400 as also pretty sweet (it's just an upscale Toyota after all).

 

The Aptera also looks interesting. Unfortunately it looks like it'll retail for about $30k. As battery technology continues to develop and people buy more of this type of vehicle the prices will come down though.

 

The last generation 300ZX interior was sweet, fit me like a glove at 6'1".

I was going to reply to KC that 'what would you expect in a state where the governor has 4 or 5 Hummers'...but Chevy announced today they're shutting 4 North American truck plants to focus on economical cars, the Volt IS going to production and they're considering the sale of the Hummer brand...so maybe times are a changing...

 

I hadn't heard that, but Google turned up several stories on it. My favorite quote is this one:

Wow, Wagoner has come to "believe" that consumers want something that gets more than 12 mpg. How insightful! How do guys like that get to be CEOs anyway? Pay me half of his salary, because I've been saying that was going to happen since gas hit $2 / gallon.

Makes me wonder a bit whether Chevy will pull the plug on the Camaro and Chrysler on the new Challenger. It just doesn't seem to make sense to introduce two gas-guzzling muscle cars at this time.

There was one quote in one of the stories that I didn't get though.

Is there something intrinsic in the front-drive design that gives it better economy, or is it just the fact that most economic cars are front-drive?

I hate to see people lose their jobs, that sucks big-time. I don't understand why the plants can't be repurposed to building different vehicles.

 

I'd drive that if it were cheep enough, it reminds me of a sporty version of Woody Allens Sleeper car.

 

Generally large corporations will use this excuse to move the production of something out of the US and into a cheaper region. ie: they'll build a new plant in Mexico and start building the pickups down there. By all rights any facility could be re-tooled to build whatever a large manufacturer wants, but generally they decide to build a new facility somewhere else so that they can start all over again. My little factory of less than 1000people has been staring this grim future in the face for around a year now. We build around 4 million engines a year and the second someone in China or Thailand figures out how we do it our plant will be history. Luckily our CEO has figured out it isn't as easy as it looks!

Vs

 

Whether you intended to or not, you proved my point. Any car that drops 10+ mpg just by turning on the AC is a joke. However, if you like your car, that's your business & I am not trying to tell you you shouldn't like it. I will say that anyone that lives in NJ or anywhere that gets hot like NJ does will tell you that AC is mandatory & it's use is not optional. When I lived on Guam, my Wife threatened to cut my throat if I tried to drive with the AC off.

The main reason I mentioned power & it's importance can be illustrated by the Camry you mentioned. In 1970, the Chevy 350 SB V8 installed in about a billion different cars had an advertised 300-325 HP. In reality, it was more like 250-275 HP. Today, a Toyota Camry V6 comes with 265HP. My Wife's VW GTI 2.0 Turbo will kill my neighbors Dodge 340 4Sp Duster & it's not even a close race. My how times have changed, right? My belief is that power is very import but it is only advertised on cars like the Mustang & such.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

In B.C next month we can add another tax to your pie chart. carbon tax this tax is going to make the air cleaner and save the human race. and im sure we will have to pay gst on that tax as well.

 

Make sure you register everyone to receive the $100 rebate check that's coming... including the kids!

 

Not quite it depends which one, have read a magazine article of the time testing the '70 340 Duster 0>60 in 6.2 seconds and the quarter in 14.7 and the small block Mopar rung out would sound much much cooler....

 

At his request, we raced & I blew his doors off. I am not exaggerating, it wasn't even close. When the road started curving, I started laughing at him in my rear view.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2: