oil level rising. Coolant leak? Head gasket? Cost?

oil level rising. gas leaking into oil? cause?

Think I've got serious problems. The oil level on my 2001 VFR with 15,000 miles keeps increasing, right now it's about 1/2 qt higher than when I changed it. I think I was in denial when I first noticed the problem, now I've stopped riding it. I don't ever notice any discoloration of the oil. Given how much the oil level has gone up it seems like it must be gas or coolant leaking into the crankcase (coolant level is low) -- or is there another explanation? The bike runs perfectly in all temperatures, no problems starting, idling, cruising, or WOT. I've only had the bike for about 700 miles, it's at 15000 miles. The previous owner was actually AHEAD on the maintenance, he had the 16K service done when he bought it at 13K, all the records to prove it. He was an older guy, and mainly a cruiser rider.

UPDATE:
see my post on 6/27 for lots of detailed info I got from a great local mechanic

 

My '01 oil level seems to rise a little after I change the oil. I think its oil that doesnt drain out and is caught somewhere in the engine.

I always fill to top level, run engine, let it set, check again (usually a tad low), then add some more. Guess I'll just leave it a tad low next time and see what she does.


Take the oil cap off and smell the oil. If it smells like gas then a 100% DONT RIDE IT. Gas will thin oil out real fast and you'll have a lot of burnt bearings.

If it smells like antifreeze than you know you have a leak.

 

gas?

Thanks Rangerscott! Hadn't thought to use my nose, good tip. Did the smell test, the oil cap smells like a mix of gas and oil. That would explain why the oil doesn't get discolored. What causes that? A leak in the fuel injector or some other fuel system part? How to troubleshoot?

 

gas in oil usually occurs from 2 areas: blow-by past piston rings which a little is normal, or a clogged crankcase ventalation could cause it but unlikely, it would be more vapor smell than actual liquid. i would also check the smell between the oil you installed in the bottle and compare it to the oil in the engine. sometimes some oil has an odd smell that might smell like gas to some people. afterall they are both hydrocarbons. an easy way to check for coolant in the oil is to let the engine sit overnight and the without moving the bike pull the oil drain plug. if the oil level has gone up as much as you said it has the first thing to come out of the drain hole will be coolant. oil seperates from coolant and will sit on top of it. i am not familiar with the exact oil level checking procedure but if you fill it with a cold engine and checking it after riding it will be higher do to expansion, not much but maybe enough to get your attention. hhpw maybe something will help. good luck.

 

To check if you have ANY coolant in your oil, check the oil/dipstick right after shutting down the bike at operating temperature.

If the dipstick looks to have a cappuccino/latte on it (not oil), you have a nuked head gasket.

If this is not the case, I am at a loss - will an FI bike flood the crankcase with fuel? I thought this would only happen on carbed bikes.

Which is heavier - gas or oil? IN other words, if he is flooding the crankcase, which would come out of the drain hole first?

 

How is the gas mileage? Is the air filter clean? If the air filter is clogged it'll pull a lot of fuel, and there won't be enough air to burn it, and some fuel might end up in the crankcase.

 

Been getting 33-35 mpg (I check at every fillup). About what I expect considering I've done a lot of short rides lately. Best I've ever gotten is about 39 mpg. I assume the air filter was done at the 16K service, can check when I get home, but good thought.

 

Water/coolant is heavier than oil - it will settle to the bottom of the crankcase, in time

Sorry, Duh I should read more carefully!

Gas is lighter than oil, but will mix and not settle out.

 

Check condition of the plugs. Do you have a single plug that apears to be wet or are all the plugs appearing wet. Are you running a pcIII? Perform a compression test. Fuel in the oil can result from too rich of an idle mixture (pulse length too long at idle). Can also be caused by one or more injectors leaking. When the engine is shut down residual fuel pressure allows fuel to flow past a leaking injector. Low compression would allow excessive blow-by comtaminating the crank case. Go for a long ride and get into some stop and go traffic to bring up the operating temp. to max. then check oil level again.

 

That low mileage makes me think fuel, but I'm a carburetor guy and I'm not too sure on what fuel injectors do over time.

 

Sorry, when I said fuel I was thinking of vehicles with mechanical fuel pumps. They have a diaphragm and when it goes out it can start pumping fuel into the oil.

 

Hello CO_Tim
Sorry to hear about your problem.
Just a few questions. Do you know for sure how much oil you put in the crankcase? Did you change the oil filter. The manual says 3.1 qts if no filter. 3.3 qts if you change the filter, and 4.0 qts if the engine is dry as in after a rebuild. Could you have installed too much oil at the change? If you are not sure you can drain the oil (don't remove the filter) and carefully measure the volume. I should be about 3.1 qts. If it's more you either put in too much or there is someting else being introduced such as antifreeze or gas. Put it in a clear container and check the appearance. If ist is mixed with antifreeze or water you should be able to tell. If mixed with gas you might be able to tell from the odour. If it appears to be oil then I would install exactly 3.1 qts of oil in the crankcase. Put on the kill swith and turn the engine over with the starter a few times to distribute the oil. Allow the oil to settle then check the level. It should be at the full mark. Have the oil that you remove tested for contaminents. If clear you should be able to ride on.

 

VFR2k2 - The oil level keeps going up and up, it's not just a one time overfilling thing. Before my last oil change I drained the oil to the low mark and it kept going up.

txlongrider - No pcIII, the bike is totally stock. Hasn't been abused either (at least by me and 2nd owner, maybe first owner).

 

Drop by Brian Sharp's shop there in Boulder. He's a master Ducati tech but he'll be glad to share information and offer suggestions.

 

has the coolant level been dropping? If it is changing that much, you should be able to notice it elsewhere.

 

I work on quite a few fuel injected Honda's. I suppose theoretically the fuel system should stay pressurized with the pump "off line". But my practical experience has been not so. I've never put a gauge on for observation, and to my knowledge Honda doesn't publish specs on this...but I rarely get much of a squirt when I break the pressure fittings loose, for example to remove a fuel tank, even after just a few hours.

A couple things that'll make an injected bike run rich...pressure regulator or a bad signal to it from the intake manifold...or if the fuel return line from the regulator back to the fuel tank is kinked or pinched it'll really spike the fuel pressure.

I think it's not likely either one of these would cause a noticable increase in oil level due to contamination and would more likely cause poor gas milage, rich running condition, spark plug fouling...that sorta thing. But I'm not positive about that either...I've had nary a problem like that in my experience.

If you're convinced there's a problem (I'm not by what you've posted but I'm skeptical by nature)...you should dump and inspect your oil, as others have suggested. Coolant consumption will be obvious (yeah latte, VT Viffer), or oil that is much thinner than it should be. I personally have a hard time determining this by whiffing the dipstick hole.

The conditions you check oil...angle of the bike...amount of time oil has had to return to the bottem after you shut it off...even leaning the bike back and forth can all make a difference. Are you sure the conditions you're checking it are absolutely consistent? Oh...and use the dipstick...measuring the amount you add isn't as accurate.

 

Bringing the post alive. LOL

Put the bike on the centerstand. Run it for a few seconds, then let it set some, then check it.


When completely cold, I'm sure some oil from the oil cooler or somewhere drains down.

 

Like stated before, if you had coolant in the oil, you'd know it. It would look like you'd poured a milkshake in the oil. Gas would mix with the oil, so you'd never see it. Now the question is: "How is it geting in there?"

 

Not sure if this helps and not sure if viffer use a fuel pressure regulator (FPR), but on many cars there is a FPR that is also connected to intake manifold for vacuum. (Purpose being to keep the fuel pressure at the injectors constant with respect to manifold pressure). Anyway if they get a breach, it can allow extra fuel to get pulled directly from the regulator into the intake manifold.

 

You go boy! I forgot about that.